Cowards!

[Tsing Tao]

Good question. In the early days there seemed to be no imaginable limit on how big our population should be, except perhaps among extreme environmentalists and such who love solitude. It's hard to answer, everyone has a different feel for it. To me, there are too many people in the US, particularly east of the Mississippi. But I'm a bit of a crank Westerner that way. But I imagine many residents of teeming NYC wouldn't have it any other way.

Even if it weren't an issue of land management, unless every new taxpayer is giving more than they're taking, it's not sustainable.

 

[dbphoenix]

You could vote to make productive, illegal immigrants citizens immediately. Even though the lazy wouldn't be ejected it would still be an improvement.

Like Ellis Island prior to 1924.

 

[dbphoenix]

If they're productive, bring 'em on board. They are then taxpayers, too.

Note that the taxpayer crowd fails to understand that even illegals pay taxes, even if those taxes are only sales taxes and property taxes.

 

[loyek590]

now that I think about it, I think I will get off my butt in November and vote another straight libertarian ticket. My district has Saturday voting and it is a piece of cake. I figure if you don't vote, you lose your right to bitch.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Note that the taxpayer crowd fails to understand that even illegals pay taxes, even if those taxes are only sales taxes and property taxes.

No, we understand it just fine. The question is whether they give more in taxes than they take in benefits.

I will admit freely that an illegal who pays taxes - ANY taxes - is better than one who does not. But if you want to allow them all to have citizenship, then it's rather important to see whether the net influx of the crowd is positive or negative to the deficit.

 

[dbphoenix]

No, we understand it just fine. The question is whether they give more in taxes than they take in benefits.

I will admit freely that an illegal who pays taxes - ANY taxes - is better than one who does not. But if you want to allow them all to have citizenship, then it's rather important to see whether the net influx of the crowd is positive or negative to the deficit.

Whether or not one "gives more in taxes than they take in benefits" has nothing to do with whether or not one is a citizen.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Whether or not one "gives more in taxes than they take in benefits" has nothing to do with whether or not one is a citizen.

You are correct, it does not. But it is relevant as to whether or not we should accept one who is here right now illegally, becoming a citizen.

 

[loyek590]

oh, that takes the cake, "We can't allow you to become a citizen because we just have too many darn benefits."

 

[Tsing Tao]

oh, that takes the cake, "We can't allow you to become a citizen because we just have too many darn benefits."

The benefits are irrelevant to the discussion of citizenship - they get them whether or not they are legal - which is part of the problem. The benefits are, however, relevant to the discussion of illegal immigration.

 

[loyek590]

The benefits are irrelevant to the discussion of citizenship - they get them whether or not they are legal - which is part of the problem. The benefits are, however, relevant to the discussion of illegal immigration.

you sure about that? How does an illegal apply for Social Security?