Corona Virus Relief Package. As usual, an embarrasment.

[Ricter]

So, I do disagree with the Chicago school of economics analysis of student loan forgiveness based on their framing of incomes. We know whites earn more than blacks with similar degrees. If they did the analysis based on gender, they would find men would benefit more than women based on income, too.

But, again, this is about stimulus, not civil rights, even though civil rights groups enthusiastically support the idea. Dollar for dollar, wiping out student debt will add over $100 billion a year to gdp for almost 2 decades. It’s singularly in a category of its own for long term stimulus.

Yeah, but look at all the problems "free" (from the student's perspective) high school has caused us! And you want to make college free?!

 

[UsualName]

Yeah, but look at all the problems "free" (from the student's perspective) high school has caused us! And you want to make college free?!

Actually, I’d prefer student loans be made interest free. But we are not discussing the best loan repayment scheme, we are discussing stimulus.

People get very emotional about these things. They feel like if some young people get their loans discharged it’s somehow going to cause them harm. I don’t understand why anyone would care. If the goal is to get the country moving then we might as well do what will get the country moving the best.

 

[gwb-trading]

Actually, I’d prefer student loans be made interest free. But we are not discussing the best loan repayment scheme, we are discussing stimulus.

People get very emotional about these things. They feel like if some young people get their loans discharged it’s somehow going to cause them harm. I don’t understand why anyone would care. If the goal is to get the country moving then we might as well do what will get the country moving the best.

So the parents who saved money for years to send their children to college -- doing without fancy cars, exotic family vacations, etc. should cheer on the less responsible families who spent their money wildly & enjoyed luxury having the student loans of their children paid off with their taxpayer dollars. What a complete pile of crap. At least can you understand why people who properly budgeted and saved for college are pissed if their tax payments are used to pay off student loans of less responsible people?

 

[Ricter]

So the parents who saved money for years to send their children to college -- doing without fancy cars, exotic family vacations, etc. should cheer on the less responsible families who spent their money wildly & enjoyed luxury having the student loans of their children paid off with their taxpayer dollars. What a complete pile of crap. At least can you understand why people who properly budgeted and saved for college are pissed if their tax payments are used to pay off student loans of less responsible people?

Fair points, though they do shackle the present to the past. Which is of course what conservatives prefer. Not that they're wrong, progressives sometimes are in such a hurry to change the present they may not realize they're cutting the wrong side of the branch we're sitting on.

 

[UsualName]

So the parents who saved money for years to send their children to college -- doing without fancy cars, exotic family vacations, etc. should cheer on the less responsible families who spent their money wildly & enjoyed luxury having the student loans of their children paid off with their taxpayer dollars. What a complete pile of crap. At least can you understand why people who properly budgeted and saved for college are pissed if their tax payments are used to pay off student loans of less responsible people?

My mom worked two jobs and still didn’t have two nickels to rub together when rent was due. You’re stereotyping and disregarding the plight of the working poor in this country as somehow financially reckless and irresponsible people. Shame on you.

 

[UsualName]

Fair points, though they do shackle the present to the past. Which is of course what conservatives prefer. Not that they're wrong, progressives sometimes are in such a hurry to change the present they may not realize they're cutting the wrong side of the branch we're sitting on.

The idea of more responsible vs less less responsible parents has what exactly to do with the kids?

I’d like to remind you all that it is not the less responsible parent carrying the debt.

 

[Ricter]

The idea of more responsible vs less less responsible parents has what exactly to do with the kids?

I’d like to remind you all that it is not the less responsible parent carrying the debt.

Doesn't change the fact that we know how parents who worked, saved, and paid for their kids' college would feel when college is suddenly made free.

Anyway, my point started with high school, and trying to show that free high school has not destroyed America, so there's a fair chance that free college wouldn't either.

 

[gwb-trading]

My mom worked two jobs and still didn’t have two nickels to rub together when rent was due. You’re stereotyping and disregarding the plight of the working poor in this country as somehow financially reckless and irresponsible people. Shame on you.

As noted by the Washington Post -- very little of paying off student loans will help the lower class. This is a big giveaway to the middle and upper class.

If you want to help the poor with their college loans then set some upper income limits (parents & student) on those who will have taxpayers pay-off their college loans.

I would be more supportive of this "pay off college loans" idea if it truly was targeted to help the low income --- rather than becoming a huge giveaway.

 

[UsualName]

Doesn't change the fact that we know how parents who worked, saved, and paid for their kids' college would feel when college is suddenly made free.

Anyway, my point started with high school, and trying to show that free high school has not destroyed America, so there's a fair chance that free college wouldn't either.

Heres the rub, I’m not for free college. I’m not even for broad student loan forgiveness. Like I’ve said my preference is interest free student loans.

However, if we are talking about stimulus, there really isn’t a better way to actually stimulate the economy right now. People with student loans 1. Have low unemployment rates 2. Stable incomes. This means removing those payments which do not go into the economy would free up a lot of money for a long time to come - decades.

It’s not like giving a lot of people $2000 and they pay down some bills or buy a new washing machine and it’s done. Student loans will keep pumping the economy.

I do think there is a real moral hazard here, is my issue. Namely students and colleges will get into the mindset that the loans will be forgiven at the next downturn etc. This is why I am against it, personally.

But, if I was the president, not some guy, I would probably do it because the stimulus effect would be massive and change the economy rather quickly.

 

[UsualName]

As noted by the Washington Post -- very little of paying off student loans will help the lower class. This is a big giveaway to the middle and upper class.

If you want to help the poor with their college loans then set some upper income limits (parents & student) on those who will have taxpayers pay-off their college loans.

I would be more supportive of this "pay off college loans" idea if it truly was targeted to help the low income --- rather than becoming a huge giveaway.

I get it, your issues are fairness to responsible parents and some civil and income inequalities. To me, those are moot. I don’t agree with the racial analysis, I think the framing of that one analysis is biased, and the idea that children should be paying for their parents irresponsibility is repulsive to me.