Coming to terms with my feelings. Long, sorry.

[Tony Stark]

Not only were they "treasonous traitors" but they also supported slavery! The English, while not having outlawed slavery yet, were more and more opposed to it while the colonists weren't.

Given that most of this country supports the actions the colonists took back then, does that mean they do so supporting slavery?

Of course most the country supported the what the colonists did,we were all brainwashed in school to think the racist rapist slave owning founders were great men.The support for that drops as more and more people learn what pieces of shit the founders were.Clearly Washington and the rest of the slavery supporting founders are less revered today than they were in the past and thier popularity will continue to drop as time goes on and more people learned who they actually were.

Personally I wish the Brits would have slaughtered Washington and every one of his fellow traitors.While The Brits are not great this country would have been better staying under British rule imo.

 

[El OchoCinco]

So do the research on the why each statue was put up, and keep the historical reference ones and not the ones put up for the reasons you claim happened. Don't just pull down all statues because the general or soldier fought for the South. I think its rather simple.

I think fighting for the south is enough, it was a rebellion and the underlying cause was the south was upset at being told to stop buying and selling people. There is not one single admirable justificaton for a general who fought to lead an insurrection against the U.S. government to have the honor of a statue dedicated in a space.

It is not washing history because those people are still a part of history and in civil war museums and school history classes. But having the leader of the rebellion with a sqaure in downtown New Orleans?

The South was against north opinions on slavery, westward expansion (which states could be slavery) and state's rights. All of it centered on the South's economy built up on slave labor.

I still find it surprising people want to take the side of the Confederacy in keeping their statues in places of honor and respect like they earned something fighting against the U.S. government to keep slaves.

General Lee quit the U.S. army to go lead the South against the Union army.....it is basically treason.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Of course most the country supported the what the colonists did,we were all brainwashed in school to think the racist rapist slave owning founders were great men.The support for that drops as more and more people learn what pieces of shit the founders were.Clearly Washington and the rest of the slavery supporting founders are less revered today than they were in the past and thier popularity will continue to drop as time goes on and more people learned who they actually were.

Personally I wish the Brits would have slaughtered Washington and every one of his fellow traitors.While The Brits are not great this country would have been better staying under British rule imo.

Their slavery past was buried quite a bit due to the great political and military goals they achieved in their lifetimes. Now just visiting Monticello and Moutn Vernon you can see the whole story is told both good and bad. To say that we would have been better off under a Monarchy dictatorship than the Constitutional government that was created is almost like just trolling us here. You think India and all those subject to British colonial rule were so amazing during those times .

The constitutional government is one of the greatest successful political experiments that made what the U.S. is today. There was nothing wrong with the Declaration or the Constitution, it was the people in charge at the time. Washington was a great political thinker and so was Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton. As people their slave owning history is a complete contradiction of everything they supposedly stood for and sadly it took 100 more years to make the first correction and another 100 year to make the next one.

History has corrected many mistakes and again, going to those two museums you see the way history should be taught.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Their slavery past was buried quite a bit due to the great political and military goals they achieved in their lifetimes. Now just visiting Monticello and Moutn Vernon you can see the whole story is told both good and bad. To say that we would have been better off under a Monarchy dictatorship than the Constitutional government that was created is almost like just trolling us here. You think India and all those subject to British colonial rule were so amazing during those times .

The constitutional government is one of the greatest successful political experiments that made what the U.S. is today. There was nothing wrong with the Declaration or the Constitution, it was the people in charge at the time. Washington was a great political thinker and so was Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton. As people their slave owning history is a complete contradiction of everything they supposedly stood for and sadly it took 100 more years to make the first correction and another 100 year to make the next one.

History has corrected many mistakes and again, going to those two museums you see the way history should be taught.

This was my point entirely. Thank you for making it.

Every story of independence, whether successful or not, has both good and bad in it. "Good" and "Bad" of course being subjective from our own point of view.

And we shouldn't wreck the history of it because it isn't something we like.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I think fighting for the south is enough, it was a rebellion and the underlying cause was the south was upset at being told to stop buying and selling people. There is not one single admirable justificaton for a general who fought to lead an insurrection against the U.S. government to have the honor of a statue dedicated in a space.

It is not washing history because those people are still a part of history and in civil war museums and school history classes. But having the leader of the rebellion with a sqaure in downtown New Orleans?

The South was against north opinions on slavery, westward expansion (which states could be slavery) and state's rights. All of it centered on the South's economy built up on slave labor.

I still find it surprising people want to take the side of the Confederacy in keeping their statues in places of honor and respect like they earned something fighting against the U.S. government to keep slaves.

General Lee quit the U.S. army to go lead the South against the Union army.....it is basically treason.

Maybe read a few of the biographies (and in a few cases, autobiographies) of the generals you're talking about. You might be surprised with what they believed and why they chose what they did.

 

[El OchoCinco]

This was my point entirely. Thank you for making it.

Every story of independence, whether successful or not, has both good and bad in it. "Good" and "Bad" of course being subjective from our own point of view.

And we shouldn't wreck the history of it because it isn't something we like.

Wrecking history? They dont belong glorified they belong in museums of the history. There is nothing subjective about taking up arms against your country because you want to keep the institution of slavery around.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Maybe read a few of the biographies (and in a few cases, autobiographies) of the generals you're talking about. You might be surprised with what they believed and why they chose what they did.

Like something admirable they did as a 22 year old suddenly makes treason and violating the military code of West Point to fight to maintain slavery ok? Why would his prior life before committing treason and fighting to uphold slavery suddenly make us honor him.

Lee said salvery was bad but was far worse for the white man and Blacks needed slavery to be taught right...

I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.

it is not subjective at all. If he wrote letters saying slavery was bad but kept on fighting for it and claiming slavery was needed, it does not absolve him of treason.

i still have not seen one good argument

 

[Tony Stark]

Like something admirable they did as a 22 year old suddenly makes treason and violating the military code of West Point to fight to maintain slavery ok? Why would his prior life before committing treason and fighting to uphold slavery suddenly make us honor him.

Lee said salvery was bad but was far worse for the white man and Blacks needed slavery to be taught right...

I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.

it is not subjective at all. If he wrote letters saying slavery was bad but kept on fighting for it and claiming slavery was needed, it does not absolve him of treason.

i still have not seen one good argument

Lee was also brutal to his slaves.

 

[Tony Stark]

To say that we would have been better off under a Monarchy dictatorship than the Constitutional government that was created is almost like just trolling us here. You think India and all those subject to British colonial rule were so amazing during those times .

For certain groups like native americans,blacks and even poor whites US rule were not so amazing during those times,or even now.

 

[El OchoCinco]

Lee was also brutal to his slaves.

Well they all were to some extent but we can look at what Washington and Jefferson did for the country formation and early years while recognizing their personal hypocrisy with slavery.

Lee left the U.S. army to join a group of armed people to fight Union soldiers which is treason. Since his reasoning was to support a side that did not want the federal government telling them they could not own people, it just wraps it in a nice little bow. Lee deserves chapters in the history books, not a glorified statue put up by racists to enforce Jim Crow or anyone else.