CNBC Maria Bartiromo's Exclusive Interview with Gov. Sarah Palin

Quote from vhehn:

you are using an appeal to ignorance as your argument. because something seems complicated you insert a god into any gap in our knowledge.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html

It is always amusing to hear theists proclaim that they dont believe in evolution because it sounds too complicated yet they will readily believe that some grey haired old deity in the sky just spoke and everything we see today popped up from nothing.


Did you not read what I wrote? Maybe you should read it again, but because I doubt you will:

What "seems complicated"? Evolution? Not really, Creationism? Not really. It's not a "gap in our knowledge". Gap implies that its small and is filled on on each other side. Science can come no where near explaining why we are here, how we got here, how we live, if we here for a purpose etc etc..thats not a "gap", that's a huge hole. Does that mean that creationism is correct? No. It means that we have been without explanation since we have been on this earth. We are no closer now, so once again I say to you, can you blame people for drawing their own conclusions? For having faith? Read the last paragraph of what I wrote because it seems like you just skipped over it. Im not advocating creationism. I'm only pointing out that, given our lack of knowledge on the subject, its sad that you point your finger and laugh at those who hold a different perspective than you.

On a side note, I don't know any creationists who don't believe in evolution because its "too complicated".

Once again I ask you to re-read my last post. Most of what I would say to retort is already in there.
 
I don't need to educate myself on evolution, or creationism. I already have. There's a good chance I know far more about both than you do. That's obvious by the fact that you think there is a simple answer.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

Did you not read what I wrote? Maybe you should read it again, but because I doubt you will:

What "seems complicated"? Evolution? Not really, Creationism? Not really. It's not a "gap in our knowledge". Gap implies that its small and is filled on on each other side. Science can come no where near explaining why we are here, how we got here, how we live, if we here for a purpose etc etc..thats not a "gap", that's a huge hole. Does that mean that creationism is correct? No. It means that we have been without explanation since we have been on this earth. We are no closer now, so once again I say to you, can you blame people for drawing their own conclusions? For having faith? Read the last paragraph of what I wrote because it seems like you just skipped over it. Im not advocating creationism. I'm only pointing out that, given our lack of knowledge on the subject, its sad that you point your finger and laugh at those who hold a different perspective than you.

On a side note, I don't know any creationists who don't believe in evolution because its "too complicated".

Once again I ask you to re-read my last post. Most of what I would say to retort is already in there.
but why do you rush to put a concept ,biblegod, dreamed up by primitive men thousands of years ago into a gap in our knowledge? nothing science has ever observed has ever pointed to any kind of supernatural force.
 
Quote from vhehn:

but why do you rush to put a concept ,biblegod, dreamed up by primitive men thousands of years ago into a gap in our knowledge? nothing science has ever observed has ever pointed to any kind of supernatural force.


Wow. Really? Seriously did you not read what I said? Try responding to what I said as opposed to saying the same thing over and over. Here, maybe this will help. In response to that:


You did get a little too close to home. Why? It has nothing to do with my beliefs or lack of beliefs. It's because the world is full of people like you, people that for some reason can 't look through an issue and see the complexity of it.People like you blindly project their beliefs with no regard to why there is even an opposing point of view. This happens on every kind of issue, abortion, gun control, etc. These are issues because there is no simple or easily provable answer. We then are that much further from deciding on an amicable solution because both sides are blinded by their own biases.

You said creationists are ignorant, you may be right in that they ignore your "evidence" (I am suspicious of such), however I would guess that you aren't familiar in the intricacies of creationism and the theories involved with it (eg apparent age) either. The fact that you think fossils can prove or disprove creationism is testament to your ignorance of creationism.

That being said, I understand why you rely on science to prove and disprove certain things. I do it. We all do it. Because it's all we know. Am I a creationist? I don't know. The only thing I have figured out, is that I know nothing.

Look at the human body for example. We know far more about how our bodies work today then we did 1,000 years ago. We know why blood clots, and we know what our heart is used for, but tell me...how does a heart beat? What keeps it beating for 70 years? We know how the sun works, but tell me how it got there? The big bang theory? Thin, but ok. How did the initial matter arrive? Science can no more explain how the universe came to be than it could if an elephant suddenly appeared in your living room. My point is while science is getting more and more advanced, its simply telling us how the things work that we can't explain. Science only breaks down what we don't know into catagories. It opens them up and tells us which parts do what, with out explaining why or even how. Using the elephant example, if an elephant appeared in your house before your wife came home what would happen? She would likely scream and wonder just what the hell is going on. You, using science, would say "Well this is en elephant. Its gray, has a trunk"...eventually you would get down to the very cells that make up the elephant "....the tusks are made up of these kind of cells which are powered by the mitochondria and controlled by the nucleus..etc etc"....after all that scientific explaining would your wife walk off, satisfied? No. She would still want to know how, and why the hell there is an elephant in your living room. Science would provided no answer, just like it can't for humans, the earth, and the entire universe.


Does that been there is a god? No. It's doesnt mean anything, but that there are so many things that we can't quantify and are no closer to than we were 5,000 years ago. Is it so strange to you then that humans would choose other ways to explain things (eg religion)? Can you prove them wrong? Can you give them their answers? I don't think so. If I were you, I would be so quick to deal out explanations.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

I don't need to educate myself on evolution, or creationism. I already have. There's a good chance I know far more about both than you do. That's obvious by the fact that you think there is a simple answer.
if you have educated yourself on creationism and still believe it you must have found some kind of evidence for it then. what is the evidence that convinces you that creationism is possible?
 
Quote from vhehn:

if you have educated yourself on creationism and still believe it you must have found some kind of evidence for it then. what is the evidence that convinces you that creationism is possible?

READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE YOU RESPOND.

taken from 2 posts ago:




Did you not read what I wrote? Maybe you should read it again, but because I doubt you will:

What "seems complicated"? Evolution? Not really, Creationism? Not really. It's not a "gap in our knowledge". Gap implies that its small and is filled on on each other side. Science can come no where near explaining why we are here, how we got here, how we live, if we here for a purpose etc etc..thats not a "gap", that's a huge hole. Does that mean that creationism is correct? No. It means that we have been without explanation since we have been on this earth. We are no closer now, so once again I say to you, can you blame people for drawing their own conclusions? For having faith? Read the last paragraph of what I wrote because it seems like you just skipped over it. Im not advocating creationism. I'm only pointing out that, given our lack of knowledge on the subject, its sad that you point your finger and laugh at those who hold a different perspective than you.

On a side note, I don't know any creationists who don't believe in evolution because its "too complicated".

Once again I ask you to re-read my last post. Most of what I would say to retort is already in ther
 
Quote from jonbig04:

READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE YOU RESPOND.

I'm only pointing out that, given our lack of knowledge on the subject, its sad that you point your finger and laugh at those who hold a different perspective than you.

we dont have a lack of knowledge. we know for sure that the earth was not created by some deity 6000 years ago. do we not stand up and challenge those who claim it was?
remember this whole debate is about a woman who some claim is an intelligent woman who wants to teach this very thing in our public schools. what do we teach? that biblegod created the earth and everything on it 6000 years ago and scientists who claim otherwise are denying gods word as she believes?
 
Quote from vhehn:

we know for sure that the earth was not created by some deity 6000 years ago.


Oh, you know for sure do you? Oh, ok my mistake. I rest my case.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

Yea. you're kind of dumb.

First of all do you really think I, or anyone else in the world can create a valid case for creationism or evolution that will prove either beyond the shadow of any doubt? No. Why do you think it's such an issue?

Secondly, why should I got through the trouble of making all these logical points when he didn't?

Thirdly, his lack of respect for creationists shows how ignorant he is. Can you prove otherwise? Can I? Can anybody? No this is america and we let differences be differences. Except for this guy who obviously thinks he has all the answers and anybody who doesn't subscribe to HIS beliefs (because in the end evolution, creationism, etc are just that, BELIEFS) is stupid.

Lastly, I just typed 2 fucking pages in the Obama thread and didn't feel like typing anymore.

One more thing, next time he, or you, or anybody else accuses creationists of being ignorant, maybe you should take a minute to thank the creationists that built this country and its value system which, incidentally, was based on that "ignorant" value system.

You're quite the charmer, aren't you? But, at least you posted something after the insult. Thank you.
 
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