Civil discourse on gun control

[gwb-trading]

I'd also point out where local and state governments have tried to regulate the 2nd amendment, and have lost when challenged (sometimes they have won as well). But just because the government can do something doesn't mean it is legal.

If you're saying that because the government can highly regulate some things, it can highly regulate anything, that's simply not the case. Heller makes this clear. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

The federal government previously has regulated gun types and magazine sizes in the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1993. This expired in 2004. Certainly this demonstrated that the federal government could regulate particular types of guns and high capacity magazines.

I concur that it would be best to have one common set of gun laws across the U.S. and not allow local/state governments to enact stricter regulations than the federal law.

 

[Poindexter]

The federal government previously has regulated gun types and magazine sizes in the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1993. This expired in 2004. Certainly this demonstrated that the federal government could regulate particular types of guns and high capacity magazines.

I concur that it would be best to have one common set of gun laws across the U.S. and not allow local/state governments to enact stricter regulations than the federal law.

True but there was a "grandfather clause" and hundreds of exemptions. What I'm saying is that applying something similar to all semiautomatic weapons (for example) will never happen without first repealing the Second Amendment. Lawfully at least.

 

[Tsing Tao]

The federal government previously has regulated gun types and magazine sizes in the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1993. This expired in 2004. Certainly this demonstrated that the federal government could regulate particular types of guns and high capacity magazines.

Again, not saying they can't. But what was the effectiveness of that ban, by the way?

 

[piezoe]

Still waiting for your response, Piezoe - in case you overlooked this.

I outlined what I thought would be a workable and effective way to go about regulating firearms in Post #80, this thread. Please comment. (What I suggested was modeling U.S. law after Canadian Law. And I made a suggestion as to how the transition might be accomplished.)

I don't think even McDonald v. Chicago (2010) would be a problem in implementing so long as the Law was Federal and uniform in all fifty States.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I outlined what I thought would be a workable and effective way to go about regulating firearms in Post #80, this thread. Please comment. (What I suggested was modeling U.S. law after Canadian Law. And I made a suggestion as to how the transition might be accomplished.)

You provided several general concepts without going into any specifics. futurecurrents tried that with "do what Australia did" even though the situation in the US is nothing like that which was in Australia, just like Canada and the US are nothing near the same. And just like futurecurrents, when asked you are providing no specifics.

You said

Allowing 180 days for all existing guns to be brought into compliance or be declared illegal. Any guns that can not be brought into compliance should be purchased by the Federal Government and that a commission be appointed to establish a fair and equitable pricing mechanism.​

You did not specify what compliance had to be done. What would be the crime for a gun not in compliance? You do realize that no national gun registry exists, so the Federal Government really has no accurate way to tell who owns a firearm and who does not, right?

How would this affect criminals who possess an estimated 4.5 million illegally held firearms? Do you believe they would comply?

In regards to this "pricing mechanism" you refer to, where would this funding come from?

 

[piezoe]

You did not specify what compliance had to be done. What would be the crime for a gun not in compliance?

Compliance simply means compliance with the law. Under Canadian law a semiautomatic is a restricted firearm and must be registered, and there are some restriction on who can own them. The majority of current semiautomatic owners would be able to comply. All they would have to do is register their semiautomatic. Read up on Canadian gun control when you have time. It seems very sensible to me and not unduly burdensome.

I should have mentioned that you can't hunt with restricted guns in Canada ,i.e., semiautomatics. Wouldn't that be nice if we in the U.S. would adopt such a sensible regulation. That would be a huge step forward for sportsmanship in the U.S. !

 

[Tsing Tao]

Compliance simply means compliance with the law. Under Canadian law a semiautomatic is a restricted firearm and must be registered, and there are some restriction on who can own them. The majority of current semiautomatic owners would be able to comply. All they would have to do is register their semiautomatic. Read up on Canadian gun control when you have time. It seems very sensible to me and not unduly burdensome.

OK, so your suggestion is not really based on confiscation but registration. You are arguing to create a national registry database, essentially. Why didn't you just say so?

Do you think criminals would comply with registering weapons?

 

[Tsing Tao]

Latest arrest on this. An 18 year old kid was found with two handguns, two long rifles (AR-15 style) and a shotgun. All of which he is unable to obtain in Maryland under the age of 21 - yet somehow, he did. I wonder if a law that isn't in place would have stopped him? Perhaps if he had to register his weapons, we'd have known sooner.

-----------------
AR-15, Grenades, Tactical Vest Found At Home Of Teen Who Took Gun To Maryland High School

The 18-year-old Maryland high school student accused of taking a loaded handgun and knife to school in Montgomery County, Maryland, last week, had a weapons cache at his home, including an AR-15-style rifle, multiple grenades, a detonator for C4 land mines, more guns, tactical vest, and a list of grievances, prosecutors said. The incident occurred one day after the mass school shooting at Stoneman Douglas High School in South Florida which left 17 children dead.

On Tuesday afternoon, Alwin Chen appeared at a Montgomery County District Court via closed-circuit television (CCTV) wearing glasses and a green jail jumpsuit. A judge ordered Chen, of Germantown, Maryland, to be held without bond, and ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

BREAKING: MoCo Police located the following items in home of Clarksburg HS student who allegedly brought handgun to class last week:

•AR-15 style rifle
•Multiple grenades
•Detonator for C4 land mines
•Additional guns
•Tactical vest
•List of grievances re: students/school pic.twitter.com/oBo71QoFVH

— Kevin Lewis (@ABC7Kevin) February 20, 2018
Chen was arrested after a school resource officer received information that he was concealing a loaded handgun in his AP Psychology class Thursday afternoon. Prosecutors also said he had a “list of grievances” in his possession at the time of the arrest.


NEW: Clarksburg High School email to parents cites "inaccurate" media reports re: Alwin Chen having "list of grievances."

To be clear, MoCo State's Attorney John McCarthy said today:

"He had written down a list of grievances + reasons why he brought the gun to school with him.”
“The list of grievances against students and school, possibly a motive for why he was going to use the gun,” assistant state’s attorney Frank Lazzaro asserted in open court. “This is about as dangerous of a situation that the court could possibly imagine.”

According to WJLA, an ABC-affiliated television station licensed to the District of Columbia, Chen told authorities his reasoning for the concealed loaded handgun was for “target practice” after school, but later changed his story and explained the weapon was for protection against bullies.

During police questioning, authorities say Chen changed his story. He initially stated he was going to “target practice” after school let out, but then explained he brought the two weapons to class for protective purposes because students had been harassing and bullying him.

Prosecutors also divulged that Chen had taken a gun to school on at least one prior occasion. However, they would not elaborate about when that offense occurred -or- if that information came to light before or after Chen’s arrest.

Later in the evening, a search warrant was served in Germantown, Maryland, where Chen lived with his parents. Montgomery County Police were shocked when they found the following items:

• Two rifles, two handguns, shotgun,
• Ammunition
• Inert grenades
• Ballistic vest
• Replica electrical firing device (referred to as a clacker) – NOTE: In open court, an officer stated they seized a “detonator for a C-4 land mine.” That appears to have been an incorrect statement.
• Journal, which reportedly made no “threat nor any expression of wanting to cause harm to anyone at the school.” NOTE: This journal appears to be different than the “list of grievances” prosecutors repeatedly mentioned in court.

 

[Poindexter]

The majority of current semiautomatic owners would be able to comply.

No they wouldn't. How are these "permitted purposes" even Constitutional? In other words, how don't they violate the Second Amendment?

Permitted purposes for a restricted firearm
There are a few purposes for which individuals can be licensed to acquire or possess a restricted firearm, the most common being target practice or target shooting competitions, or as part of a collection.

In limited circumstances, restricted firearms are also allowed for use in connection with one's lawful profession or occupation, or to protect life.

Exception: Individuals who have a firearm that is registered to them as a relic under the former legislation may continue to possess it for that purpose. However, they cannot pass that designation on to the next owner. The next owner can acquire the firearm only for one of the purposes referred to above.

As set out in the Firearms Act, a relic firearm is one that is of value as a curiosity or rarity, or that is valued as a memento, remembrance or souvenir.

Criteria for each purpose
Depending on which purpose is claimed, there are specific criteria that must be met, as follows:

Target Shooting Practice and Competition
To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, an individual must provide proof that he or she practices or competes at an approved shooting club or range. For more information about approved shooting clubs and ranges, contact the appropriate provincial or territorial CFO by calling 1-800-731-4000.

Collectors of Restricted Firearms
To be authorized to have restricted firearms as part of a collection, an individual must:

• Know the historical, technical or scientific features of such firearms in their collection
• Consent to occasional inspections of the place where their collection is stored
• Comply with regulations dealing with safe storage, record-keeping and other matters related to restricted firearms

Employment Purposes and Protection of Life
In limited circumstances, an individual may be authorized to possess or acquire a restricted firearm for employment purposes or for protection of life.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

 

[Wallet]

I understand we're talking about an 18 year old here but this isn't the first time I've seen this mentioned in a negative light.

Why is a ballistic vest considered bad?