Celsius DeFi ponzi collapsing

[NoahA]

So I stay correct, no real wealth creation...

So does the market cap of TSLA mean anything? (and I think its 10x over valued, so I'm playing devil's advocate here)

Do the market caps of companies with negative revenue mean anything like Uber? How about those that pay a dividend? And of course how about cash cows like Apple? They all have a market cap, so is market cap meaningless with no wealth creation?

 

[NoahA]

but I have to agree with Mr. Buffett, cryptos are rat poison on square.

What part don't you like? The fact that its value is created out on thin air? (like fiat currency?) Maybe you like dollars because they are backed by the US government and bitcoin isn't controlled by any state? Are you pro government control? What happens when the very same government that issues the currency cannot keep the value up any more through any means at their disposal?

Maybe you don't like the volatility? Lots of stocks are just as volatile. Sure, most fiat currencies don't drop 50% in a few months, but the USD is guaranteed to be losing at a good 5-10% every year. There are only a few brief moments where the dollar has increased purchasing power, the rest of the time its downhill.

First we need to separate bitcoin from all the other crypto, and then we can figure out exactly what you don't like about it. If we know specifically what your issue is, we can help you get over the hump. I of course see why the elites and governments would hate it, so are you in this group Pekelo?

 

[Overnight]

...

First we need to separate bitcoin from all the other crypto, and then we can figure out exactly what you don't like about it...

What we need to do is separate BTC from a comparison with fiat currency. Then we will know what BTC is worth in goods and services.

But oops, all good and services are measured in USD!

Therefore, BTC has no intrinsic value.

 

[savoir]

Why do I need to buy a house to understand how it works?

If you experience going through an actual sale of a house, you will know it’s nothing like buying or selling fungible assets on an organized exchange.

***
Any person can sell their coins at any time for the stated price. Its the same thing with stocks, and its the same thing with houses. ***

No, it’s not even remotely the same with houses.

Elon Musk is a perfect example. He needs to unload billions of dollars in Tesla shares. He clearly can't do that without moving the market like crazy, so he comes up with distractions to keep price elevated while he is busy selling.

Again you are setting up an apples and oranges comparison of selling Tesla stock with houses. The physical world is not so clean and simple as your limited experience sitting at a computer and clicking a mouse tells you it is.

In real estate, the minute an agent pulls up comps for similar houses in the area and finds 1 or 2 that sold for 200k less than 3 months ago, immediately the price they would ask for a current house about to go on the market has to reflect these two new sales. The entire value of a neighborhood is based on only the last few sales.

Jesus, who gives a shit what a real estate agent wants to do. Her ass is on fire to get the listing contract and collect a commission as fast as possible.

Houses aren’t fungible (except maybe new construction in a new development). Two similar houses in the same neighborhood could be in totally different conditions. Not just with the building, one house could be in an area prone to flooding and have recurring mold issues, as one example. You have to do your due diligence.

Also the prices aren’t firm. There are no inside bid-and-ask prices to hit. There are rounds of offers and counter-offers. Even after the sales contract is signed, the deal can fall through for a variety of reasons. The deal is not done until escrow closes. And I won’t get into possible lawsuits after the sale.

 

[The_Krakenite]

BTC definitely has not gone too well this year with all the downward pressure and shit-shows.

That said, it still has lots of potential in the near future to regain, unlike those who thought they'd play it safe and invested in say.... equity gold like Bre-X. After all, investing in a real gold-mine, how bad can things get?

People lost just about everything in that, no chance to sit back and hope to regain losses either.

 

[NoahA]

you will know it’s nothing like buying or selling fungible assets on an organized exchange.

You are making all this far too complicated and putting in lots of emotion. I realize houses aren't fungible. But you're telling me that when a house on the street sells for 20% below asking that this won't affect all the other houses, regardless or how different they are? A house is only worth what someone else will pay for it. And what someone will pay is mostly based on what other houses with similar specs have sold for in the recent future. Supply and demand are the forces at play, just like with stocks.

 

[savoir]

You are making all this far too complicated and putting in lots of emotion. I realize houses aren't fungible. But you're telling me that when a house on the street sells for 20% below asking that this won't affect all the other houses, regardless or how different they are? A house is only worth what someone else will pay for it. And what someone will pay is mostly based on what other houses with similar specs have sold for in the recent future. Supply and demand are the forces at play, just like with stocks.

I’m not making it any more complicated than it is. As far as emotion goes, I’m entertained by your cluelessness about buying and selling houses. I felt compelled to post and at least improve the discussion in general, not just for you.

Of course it’s all about supply and demand. A house or anything else is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. That’s almost tautological. The devil is in the details.

 

[NoahA]

I felt compelled to post and at least improve the discussion in general, not just for you.

You keep saying I'm clueless, yet the first thing an agent does when pricing a property is look up comps from previous sales. So who is the clueless one?

Tell me smart guy, how else do they price a property? What will the agent use?

 

[deaddog]

That said, it still has lots of potential in the near future to regain, unlike those who thought they'd play it safe and invested in say.... equity gold like Bre-X. After all, investing in a real gold-mine, how bad can things get?

People lost just about everything in that, no chance to sit back and hope to regain losses either.

The only similarity to Bre X is that investors all had the opportunity to get out at the top. So did bitcoin investors.

Oh yeah; If you were lucky enough to have shares issued you now have something you can show your grandchildren and explain the lesson you learned. You won't have that with bitcoin.

 

[savoir]

You keep saying I'm clueless, yet the first thing an agent does when pricing a property is look up comps from previous sales. So who is the clueless one?

Tell me smart guy, how else do they price a property? What will the agent use?

I see that you’re not in the US.

First of all, I did not say to ignore comp sales. But that’s just the beginning of the process to determine the price. A listing contract expires. Real estate agents are on the clock. If you take the advice of your agent as gospel, you are a moron.

Second, real estate agents aren’t more knowledgeable than the homeowners who have been living in the area for years. In many areas, owners sell without an agent and use a real estate attorney to draw up the sales contract for a flat fee instead of paying 6% commission.

Last, this whole discussion arose because you said buying and selling a house is the same as buying and selling stocks on an exchange. That’s something a person who has never gone through the stressful process of a real estate deal would say.

I don’t know if you rent or live with your parents for free. Buy a place of your own and then determine if it’s the same as clicking a mouse on your trading platform.