CAPITALISM: I used to think the Republican side was clearly better...

Quote from Maverick74:

Of course you notice that many of these guys who are in that 90% don't come in early, they don't stay late, they are lazy, they are gamblers, they have no risk management and they just don't care. But your office manager explains to you that we simply can't have an environment where 10 guys are making a killing and the other 90 aren't making a dime. It just isn't fair. I mean they could get mad and come in one day and just shoot everybody or something.
That is so very true. In fact, they used the threat of violence all the time when trying to reign in the welfare state, specifically during 1996 welfare reform act.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Alright since this is a trading forum lets look at this from a trader's perspective. Say you worked for a prop firm that has 100 in house traders. All of you traded in the same room. Now here is the deal. We all know statistically that 90% of these guys won't make a dime. And then the other 10% will have varying degrees of success. Let's say you are one of the successful people and you make lets say 500k a year ok? Now the office manager explains to you that you are only going to get lets say 200k of that money. So you ask him what about the other 300k which is rightfully yours. He explains to you that trading is very difficult and most of the guys in the room are not making any money. So he is going to take 60% of the money that the top 10% make and then pay off the negative balances the other 90% has so they can keep trading. Of course you notice that many of these guys who are in that 90% don't come in early, they don't stay late, they are lazy, they are gamblers, they have no risk management and they just don't care. But your office manager explains to you that we simply can't have an environment where 10 guys are making a killing and the other 90 aren't making a dime. It just isn't fair. I mean they could get mad and come in one day and just shoot everybody or something. Plus its not good for office moral. So you should just be happy that you are a good trader and make something which is better then nothing. This way everyone in the office is happy. Let me ask you something, if you were a successful trader would you ever want to work at this place? Hell no you wouldn't. What if you were a horrible trader that never saw a paycheck in your life from trading, would you work here? Hell yeah you would. And this is the problem. In any society most of the people will be underreporting and only a small % will ever achieve true greatness. But if you begin to penalize those that do well, then what is their motivation for doing well in the future. They will simply fall back to the mediocre level and when that happens the people on the bottom won't be able to live off their crumbs anymore. Be honest, how many of you die hard liberals would really want this? Don't lie.

You're right, in this example I'd rather work the first hour of each day there, make 100K a year (and get taxed proportionally less by the office manager), then I'd go to the trading floor next door, make another 100K (same deal), head home where I have a nice setup and make the rest of my money.

Then again, if in this example world I was eventually deprived of roads, national defense, social security, affordable health care, and Amtrak (well, maybe we could all live without Amtrak) by using this strategy, I might change my mind. I'm just glad I live in Florida where we don't have a state tax (now if it would just stop flooding).

Taxes suck, but I feel like it's perfectly justified as long as the pork is sliced thin and there is an equitable distribution of wealth. For example, is national defense really 15 times more important than education? Our government thinks so, and has for a long time. Our national priorities are out of whack.
 
There is a severe misconception apparent in this thread. Several of you accurately observe that continuing the failed liberal policies that are ruining California will result in an exodus of intelligent achievers and businesses. You see this as a bad result that any rational politician of whatever stripe would try to avoid. That is where I think you are wrong.

There is a coalition of Democrat activist groups that see business as inherently evil. Business pollutes the environment, both natural and political. Business is not progressive. Business exploits workers and the environment. Business makes a small group of white males way too rich and screws everyone else.

Most Dem activists have never held a private sector job. There are the trust fund radicals, like Rep. Patrick Kennedy(Teddy's son) who drunkenly boasted he had never worked a day in his life. There are the government workers, the teachers, the university elites, there are the race hustlers, the illegal immigrant lobby, the various activists for every possible cause except taxpayers and , of course, there is the growing welfare lobby.

Even the most intelligent members of these groups have a very fuzzy understanding of basic economics. They instinctively assume that prosperity is created by government, and that there is a fixed pie of benefits that they must fight for. They believe merit is a codeword for discrimination, that group rights should trump individual liberties and that property rights rank way down the scale of social justice.

You are wasting your time trying to convince these people that the current trajectory is unsustainable. They like the idea of things really falling apart because it will create a void for government to fill. Getting rid of rich white people will make it easier to implement the "mexifornia" agenda that Bustamante supports.

I am pessimistic. I think demographics could well be destiny for California. Within 20 years it will be a typical banana republic type state, with unbelievably corrupt politics, a few extremely rich insiders who live like kings and hordes of desperately poor who expect the government to provide their needs. It will still have nice scenery and beautiful beaches. Just like Mexico.
 
Quote from picknclick:




Taxes suck, but I feel like it's perfectly justified as long as the pork is sliced thin and there is an equitable distribution of wealth. For example, is national defense really 15 times more important than education? Our government thinks so, and has for a long time. Our national priorities are out of whack.

Where do you get the idea that we spend 15 times more on defense than education? You must be ignoring state and local expenditures. Are you counting the cost of federal scholarships and loan guarantees? The federal government shouldn't spend ANYTHING on education, as it is a local expense.

I also think you are making the typical liberal error of confusing spending with obtaining results. All the billions that have been wasted over 30 years by the federal governemnt on education have produced little in the way of progress. The main result has been to strengthen the hand of teachers unions and the educational establishment and weaken the influence of parents.
 
defense.gif


The problem is not defense.

peace

axeman



Quote from picknclick:



You're right, in this example I'd rather work the first hour of each day there, make 100K a year (and get taxed proportionally less by the office manager), then I'd go to the trading floor next door, make another 100K (same deal), head home where I have a nice setup and make the rest of my money.

Then again, if in this example world I was eventually deprived of roads, national defense, social security, affordable health care, and Amtrak (well, maybe we could all live without Amtrak) by using this strategy, I might change my mind. I'm just glad I live in Florida where we don't have a state tax (now if it would just stop flooding).

Taxes suck, but I feel like it's perfectly justified as long as the pork is sliced thin and there is an equitable distribution of wealth. For example, is national defense really 15 times more important than education? Our government thinks so, and has for a long time. Our national priorities are out of whack.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

There is a severe misconception apparent in this thread. Several of you accurately observe that continuing the failed liberal policies that are ruining California will result in an exodus of intelligent achievers and businesses. You see this as a bad result that any rational politician of whatever stripe would try to avoid. That is where I think you are wrong.

There is a coalition of Democrat activist groups that see business as inherently evil. Business pollutes the environment, both natural and political. Business is not progressive. Business exploits workers and the environment. Business makes a small group of white males way too rich and screws everyone else.

Most Dem activists have never held a private sector job. There are the trust fund radicals, like Rep. Patrick Kennedy(Teddy's son) who drunkenly boasted he had never worked a day in his life. There are the government workers, the teachers, the university elites, there are the race hustlers, the illegal immigrant lobby, the various activists for every possible cause except taxpayers and , of course, there is the growing welfare lobby.

Even the most intelligent members of these groups have a very fuzzy understanding of basic economics. They instinctively assume that prosperity is created by government, and that there is a fixed pie of benefits that they must fight for. They believe merit is a codeword for discrimination, that group rights should trump individual liberties and that property rights rank way down the scale of social justice.

You are wasting your time trying to convince these people that the current trajectory is unsustainable. They like the idea of things really falling apart because it will create a void for government to fill. Getting rid of rich white people will make it easier to implement the "mexifornia" agenda that Bustamante supports.

I am pessimistic. I think demographics could well be destiny for California. Within 20 years it will be a typical banana republic type state, with unbelievably corrupt politics, a few extremely rich insiders who live like kings and hordes of desperately poor who expect the government to provide their needs. It will still have nice scenery and beautiful beaches. Just like Mexico.

That's what makes support for any Democrat, anywhere, impossible. Grey Davis ran as a moderate Democrat, but when he ran into troubles he went running into the arms of his Marxist base. Who, like triple A says, aren't interested in a healthy business climate or whether you stay in state. The party is churning out laws from the likes of Burton and Jackie Goldberg because they have the power in the state house. These types of people decide what bills come up for a vote.

One of the funny things I've noted is that free-market liberalism is called rational economics in Australia. They are often attacked by lefties in that country which seems totally appropriate as those nitwits advocate irrational economics. What is Bustamante thinking when he says he wants to regulate the price of gasoline? The answer isn't that he's not, but rather advocating the only thing he knows, socialism.
 
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