Can't avoid the mathematical reality

Quote from CaptainObvious:

And what's your point?
The point is, some of the cost (of those with PE conditions) is offset. Maybe a lot, after all how many people are there really with serious PE conditions? Keep in mind, the larger that number is, the more urgently something like Romneycare is needed.
 
Quote from DHOHHI:

Yeah, and healthy people have much LOWER health care expenses. And in the US we continue to see an increase in fat and obese people. Ever go to a restaurant, mall or airport and look around. Men and women both in XXXL tee shirts because they are so damn fat. Not being judgmental but it's a very, very high probability that these slobs have health issues. Very few of these people have real conditions that don't allow them to lose weight. Most slobs CHOSE to be that way. Plenty have opportunity to be on America's BIGGEST Loser or whatever that show is called. These people should not pay the same as a healthy person.

If you have speeding tickets and accidents and I don't and we're the same age you will either (a pay higher premiums than I or (b) not even get coverage offered to you. Health insurance should be the same. If you CHOOSE to be irresponsible and CHOOSE to abuse your body the 2 above options should be what you have to deal with (higher rates or no policy).
I agree, much of this is problematic. There are entire swaths of our urban landscape where a person cannot realistically walk or bike to a proper grocery store--the neighborhoods are too poor to support one. So they get overpriced, low nutrition, high calorie convenience foods instead. That's an entire issue of its own that has some good research on it available.
 
The Left’s Central Delusion
Its devotion to central planning has endured from the French Revolution to Obamacare.
By Thomas Sowell

The fundamental problem of the political Left seems to be that the real world does not fit their preconceptions. Therefore they see the real world as what is wrong, and what needs to be changed, since apparently their preconceptions cannot be wrong.

A never-ending source of grievances for the Left is the fact that some groups are “over-represented” in desirable occupations, institutions, and income brackets, while other groups are “under-represented.”

From all the indignation and outrage about this expressed on the left, you might think that it was impossible that different groups are simply better at different things.

Yet runners from Kenya continue to win a disproportionate share of marathons in the United States, and children whose parents or grandparents came from India have won most of the American spelling bees in the past 15 years. And has anyone failed to notice that the leading professional basketball players have for years been black, in a country where most of the population is white?

Most of the leading photographic lenses in the world have — for generations — been designed by people who were either Japanese or German. Most of the leading diamond-cutters in the world have been either India’s Jains or Jews from Israel or elsewhere.

Not only people but things have been grossly unequal. More than two-thirds of all the tornadoes in the entire world occur in the middle of the United States. Asia has more than 70 mountain peaks that are higher than 20,000 feet and Africa has none. Is it news that a disproportionate share of all the oil in the world is in the Middle East?

Whole books could be filled with the unequal behavior or performances of people, or the unequal geographic settings in which whole races, nations, and civilizations have developed. Yet the preconceptions of the political Left march on undaunted, loudly proclaiming sinister reasons why outcomes are not equal within nations or between nations.

All this moral melodrama has served as a background for the political agenda of the Left, which has claimed to be able to lift the poor out of poverty, and in general make the world a better place. This claim has been made for centuries and in countries around the world. And it has failed for centuries in countries around the world.

Some of the most sweeping and spectacular rhetoric of the Left occurred in 18th-century France, where the very concept of the Left originated in the fact that people with certain views sat on the left side of the National Assembly.

The French Revolution was their chance to show what they could do when they got the power they sought. In contrast to what they promised — “liberty, equality, fraternity” — what they actually produced were food shortages, mob violence, and dictatorial powers that included arbitrary executions, extending even to their own leaders, such as Robespierre, who died under the guillotine.

In the 20th century, the most sweeping vision of the Left — Communism — spread over vast regions of the world and encompassed well over a billion human beings. Of these, millions died of starvation in the Soviet Union under Stalin and tens of millions in China under Mao.

Milder versions of socialism, with central planning of national economies, took root in India and in various European democracies.

If the preconceptions of the Left were correct, central planning by educated elites who had vast amounts of statistical data at their fingertips and expertise readily available, and were backed by the power of government, should have been more successful than market economies where millions of individuals pursued their own individual interests willy-nilly.

But, by the end of the 20th century, even socialist and communist governments began abandoning central planning and allowing more market competition. Yet this quiet capitulation to inescapable realities did not end the noisy claims of the Left.

In the United States, those claims and policies have reached new heights, epitomized by government takeovers of whole sectors of the economy and unprecedented intrusions into the lives of Americans, of which Obamacare has been only the most obvious example.
 
Quote from Ricter:

I agree, much of this is problematic. There are entire swaths of our urban landscape where a person cannot realistically walk or bike to a proper grocery store--the neighborhoods are too poor to support one. So they get overpriced, low nutrition, high calorie convenience foods instead. That's an entire issue of its own that has some good research on it available.

I know about the lack of stores in high poverty areas. I volunteer with kids at a school in such a neighborhood. Sadly, the lack of stores is in part due to theft that occurred at prior stores that later closed down. It's a business and if they can't turn a profit for whatever reason they'll shut down. That said, a new store opened down the street from the school. They placed fresh veggies and fruits right there as you enter the store. Many people still flock to get their Doritos, cheese doodles and other junk food. And they waste their $$$ on McDonald' and other crappy food. But these people are given every opportunity to know better. Schools and communities hold events to educate these people. Some take advantage and attend but most don't. So their ignorance regarding healthy eating is in part due to there decision to not use resources available in the community.
 
Quote from Lucrum:

The Left’s Central Delusion
Its devotion to central planning has endured from the French Revolution to Obamacare.
By Thomas Sowell .

Right, right-wing healthcare reform is central planning while they defend Medicare which is actual centrally planned healthcare delivery method.

Doublethink, thy name is Republican.
 
Quote from exGOPer:

Right, right-wing healthcare reform is central planning while they defend Medicare which is actual centrally planned healthcare delivery method.

Doublethink, thy name is Republican.


idiot, thy name is Mikey
 
Quote from exGOPer:

Right, right-wing healthcare reform is central planning while they defend Medicare which is actual centrally planned healthcare delivery method.

Doublethink, thy name is Republican.

I don't defend Medicare, Medicaid or SS.

Do you always pull such unfounded ignorant assumptions out of your ass?
 
Quote from CaptainObvious:

So an insurance company forced to take on unhealthy people will not need to raise premiums on everyone to cover the cost? Let me know how that works out. A heathcare system ill equiped to see more patients will suddenly become efficient? Must be magic at work.
All the guy is saying is that you can't put more people into a system that isn't ready to accept those millions more people, without suffering the consequences which are obvious to anyone with even a day of business experience.
That's not really what I was referring to. You do understand however that the thrust of ACA -- what it is based on, goes back to the Heritage Foundation-- is to get every one access to essentially a group rate with group terms. That's all it is about now that it's been gutted by the Democrats to get it passed --of course it was Baucus, a nominal Democrat who votes with Republicans, whose vote they had to have in the Senate, and so the public option had to go. What it means is that a young healthy individual will pay a little more and a sick fatso will pay a lot less, because there are more young healthy than there are sick fatsos. But again that's not where his misinformation really blew me away. The guy makes sense when he is giving financial advice to trailer park dwellers who have maxed out their credit cards, otherwise just tune him out.

I will agree he has great appeal to the anti-intellectual Republicans. He is the perfect example of one!
 
Quote from exGOPer:

Right, right-wing healthcare reform is central planning while they defend Medicare which is actual centrally planned healthcare delivery method.

Doublethink, thy name is Republican.

The model for the Republicans and Democrats alike is the VA -- a pristine example of socialist, central planning. Our politicians fall all over themselves to praise veterans, and promise to expand and pump money into the VA, which is never enough because of the huge damage their policies have caused. God save our noble veterans who, ever since we became convinced of American exceptionalism, we have sent on countless, hopeless missions to invade sovereign countries, and lay waste to them. God bless our eighteen to twenty-five-year-olds -- the older ones should have known better, of course, had they paid attention in school. We brainwashed these innocents and led them to the slaughter in endless, hopeless attempts to protect American Corporate Interests. You died in vain guys and girls, but we still love you. God bless our socialist VA!
 
Quote from Ricter:

Wait a sec... who do you have on ignore, exGOPer?

Muahahaha...

Yes. I have him and trendlover on ignore. Trendlover was just because of all the AGW threads in which I never participate and thus there was no reason to ever speak with that user. Never had before, and never will now. ex-GOPer went on ignore after he bumped 20 some odd threads from the election day (and did it all in one sitting) not so long ago and became the forum necromancer, spamming away and making it difficult to follow what was going on. This, despite claiming he was only here for the election and then gone, but made that shit up (like he makes up just about everything else).

The other user I have on ignore is Jake Jokes, who is a spammer that posts racists nonsense about blacks and muslims and offers no content.
 
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