Can a HF manager do this?

[ThunderThor]

I'm sorry I stepped on your little pinky toe mate...

Which of the 3 articles are you referring to? I assume it's the one phys.org one, since the others are merely opinion/blog pieces?

Let me then just point out the following.

In the article: "Some hedge funds manipulate stock prices at the end of the month to improve the returns that they report to their investors, a new study suggests" - I put emphasis on 'Some'

You: "What everyone is missing is, HF's who do this ,are doing it for one reason and one reason only." - You put emphasis on the idea that this is very widespread and basically HF's that do this are ALL doing for the reason you think... which is BS.

I never said it was widespread and was making a statement on the article,period,no more ,no less. You chose to read into my statement the word "widespread" which I never said .

"In the article: "Some hedge funds manipulate stock prices at the end of the month to improve the returns that they report to their investors, a new study suggests"

Again,they manipulated stocks in order to deceive their investors,that was the whole point of the article and the only reason given in the article that I pointed out in my original post that got lost in this thread,period.

You were wrong and decided to go off on a tantrum like a spoiled brat with your immature toe comment.


Listen,it's OK to be wrong,You must not be a good trader and probably stay in losing trades
too long,due to you not being able to admit you are wrong . Tsk tsk tsk not a good trait for trading.

You are now reprimanded ,go to your room until you learn your lesson. : )

PS: I have nothing against HF's ,but please,stop making excuses for the nefarious HF's,it's not a good look.

 

[Martinghoul]

OK, so what is the answer to the original question, which was HFs effecting price movements back and forth by size:

1. They don't do it because it is not profitable.
2. They don't do it because it is illegal.
3. They do it only for portfolio pumping at end of month or quarter.
4. Some do it all the time.
5. They used to do it but not anymore.

You have described a couple of different phenomena in this thread...

1. Correct.
2. It may be illegal, strictly speaking, but it's very hard to prove, so, effectively, it's not illegal.
3. Some amount of window-dressing into month/quarter/year-end probably happens, but this isn't what you were describing initially.
4. No, because "it" doesn't work.
5. No, "it" wouldn't have worked.

 

[Pekelo]

5. No, "it" wouldn't have worked.

I am sorry, but I take Jim Cramer's words against yours. You know, the guy who was actually a HF manager...

Also, your 3rd and 4th points contradict each other. If it doesn't work, how can they use it for window dressing?

 

[sss12]

I am sorry, but I take Jim Cramer's words against yours. You know, the guy who was actually a HF manager...

Also, your 3rd and 4th points contradict each other. If it doesn't work, how can they use it for window dressing?

If you take JC's info for anything other than entertainment you are a fool.

 

[Pekelo]

If you take JC's info for anything other than entertainment you are a fool.

Why would he lie about the past and specially about such a thing like this? There was only downside to acknowledge market manipulation so just making it up would be double stupid.

Also you not believing him doesn't prove him wrong, just so you know...

 

[comagnum]

Cramer is no slouch when it comes to managing a hedge fund. I never forgot how he described what had to happen for the market to make to make a bottom to rally from in a time when it was nearly free falling - he was spot on correct. He is a professionally trained and is one of the few that will share his knowledge with the public.

Over the fifteen years that Cramer and his partner, Jeff Berkowitz, managed Cramer Berkowitz, the fund returned 24% per year to its shareholders. This is particularly impressive when you consider that these returns are after fees (Cramer Berkowitz took the standard 20% cut of profits and 1% annual management fee.)

Cramer was the driving force behind the success of the hedge fund. He had a near encyclopedic knowledge of the stock market that allowed him to participate in nearly every news-driven event. If any company reported their earnings, Cramer would be able to tell you within a second whether or not that number was good.

 

[sss12]

Cramer is no slouch when it comes to managing a hedge fund. I never forgot how he described what had to happen for the market to make to make a bottom to rally from in a time when it was nearly free falling - he was spot on correct. He is a professionally trained and is one of the few that will share his knowledge with the public.

Over the fifteen years that Cramer and his partner, Jeff Berkowitz, managed Cramer Berkowitz, the fund returned 24% per year to its shareholders. This is particularly impressive when you consider that these returns are after fees (Cramer Berkowitz took the standard 20% cut of profits and 1% annual management fee.)

Cramer was the driving force behind the success of the hedge fund. He had a near encyclopedic knowledge of the stock market that allowed him to participate in nearly every news-driven event. If any company reported their earnings, Cramer would be able to tell you within a second whether or not that number was good.

That very well may be his history, but as of now he is just a talking head.

 

[Martinghoul]

I am sorry, but I take Jim Cramer's words against yours. You know, the guy who was actually a HF manager...

Also, your 3rd and 4th points contradict each other. If it doesn't work, how can they use it for window dressing?

Like I said, you've described two different things in this thread.

If by "It" you mean "market manipulation designed to affect the settlement price of a security", then it does probably still happen, although it's generally a lot more difficult and dangerous to do nowadays.

If by "It" you mean the practice that you've described, where someone pushes the price up/down aggressively by buying/selling, so that they can flip and subsequently sell/buy, that has never worked as a trading strategy.

 

[Pekelo]

Like I said, you've described two different things in this thread.

Not really. I made it clear I meant manipulation by sheer size. Not rumors, insider tradings etc. Just by size, this is the topic of the thread.

Now if we agree that this used to happen (a la Cramer) and you say it doesn't happen anymore, then you have to tell us when exactly and why this became improbable, unprofitable,etc.

 

[Martinghoul]

Not really. I made it clear I meant manipulation by sheer size. Not rumors, insider tradings etc. Just by size, this is the topic of the thread.

Now if we agree that this used to happen (a la Cramer) and you say it doesn't happen anymore, then you have to tell us when exactly and why this became improbable, unprofitable,etc.

Hold on, didn't you start this whole thread describing a specific strategy? In fact, I distinctly remember options involved... That strategy and its variants you subsequently suggested were specific, rather than generic "manipulation by sheer size".

As to what I've described as mkt manipulation designed to affect settlement prices, like I said, it does still happen here and there, I'm sure.