Doesn't apply. The manager is simply trading and not using 2 dozen different accounts.
Can a HF manager do this?
- Thread starter Pekelo
- Start date
Doesn't apply. The manager is simply trading and not using 2 dozen different accounts.
Did you not see posts 25-28 ? It is not that complicated.
@ajacobson was ahead of me.
While technically it's 'just trading'... it's also market manipulation. All market participants have to hold up to a fair and orderly market. There's a very thin line which you cross when you do this.
If you were to buy that much of stock where it moves significantly and then only a short time later dump it again... that's market disruption. And... buy trading in options before you do that, that makes the case for manipulation.
What you think of as simply trading, the SEC will see as manipulation. Doesn't mean there isn't a chance you can get away with it though
But you would definitely need some backstory and market momentum for this to work, since other people would need to significantly buy after you.
I'm sure people like Bill Ackmann do a similar thing, buying lots of premium/gamma, but the difference would be that he's more a dedicated short.
While technically it's 'just trading'... it's also market manipulation. All market participants have to hold up to a fair and orderly market. There's a very thin line which you cross when you do this.
If you were to buy that much of stock where it moves significantly and then only a short time later dump it again... that's market disruption. And... buy trading in options before you do that, that makes the case for manipulation.
What you think of as simply trading, the SEC will see as manipulation. Doesn't mean there isn't a chance you can get away with it though
But you would definitely need some backstory and market momentum for this to work, since other people would need to significantly buy after you.
I'm sure people like Bill Ackmann do a similar thing, buying lots of premium/gamma, but the difference would be that he's more a dedicated short.
What everyone is missing is, HF's who do this ,are doing it for one reason and one reason only.
To fudge the numbers on their quarterly statements in order to deceive their investors.
This is should be a crime in my eyes.
Does't make a difference that they aren't using multiple accounts to manipulate the stock,because they are still manipulating it in order to fudge their numbers and push their fund into the black at end of the quarter.
To fudge the numbers on their quarterly statements in order to deceive their investors.
This is should be a crime in my eyes.
Does't make a difference that they aren't using multiple accounts to manipulate the stock,because they are still manipulating it in order to fudge their numbers and push their fund into the black at end of the quarter.
Uhm... this post doesn't make any sense. If they do it, they do it for profit... has nothing to do with fudging any statements.... I think you need to take your conspiracy hat off...
I recall back in late 80s/early 90s of holding Mutual funds before last 4 trading days and transfer out after 2nd nosiness day. This link shows it has moved one day to the right perhaps.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-funds-distort-the-stock-market-with-month-end-trading-1428375831
http://finance.zacks.com/theory-buying-stocks-first-day-month-4655.html
http://finance.zacks.com/day-week-buy-stocks-8954.html
HFs, I sort of doubt they buying as it is going up, I believe they doing more of "dark orders" or "dark pools" which is another way to screw retail, they say they are helping liquidity, but they are generally only helping themselves.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dark-pool.asp
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-funds-distort-the-stock-market-with-month-end-trading-1428375831
http://finance.zacks.com/theory-buying-stocks-first-day-month-4655.html
http://finance.zacks.com/day-week-buy-stocks-8954.html
HFs, I sort of doubt they buying as it is going up, I believe they doing more of "dark orders" or "dark pools" which is another way to screw retail, they say they are helping liquidity, but they are generally only helping themselves.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dark-pool.asp
Nope, I'm just replying to the gist/content of the OP's original article.
Try reading the full article next time.
I'm sorry I stepped on your little pinky toe mate...
Which of the 3 articles are you referring to? I assume it's the one phys.org one, since the others are merely opinion/blog pieces?
Let me then just point out the following.
In the article: "Some hedge funds manipulate stock prices at the end of the month to improve the returns that they report to their investors, a new study suggests" - I put emphasis on 'Some'
You: "What everyone is missing is, HF's who do this ,are doing it for one reason and one reason only." - You put emphasis on the idea that this is very widespread and basically HF's that do this are ALL doing for the reason you think... which is BS.
OK, so what is the answer to the original question, which was HFs effecting price movements back and forth by size:
1. They don't do it because it is not profitable.
2. They don't do it because it is illegal.
3. They do it only for portfolio pumping at end of month or quarter.
4. Some do it all the time.
5. They used to do it but not anymore.
1. They don't do it because it is not profitable.
2. They don't do it because it is illegal.
3. They do it only for portfolio pumping at end of month or quarter.
4. Some do it all the time.
5. They used to do it but not anymore.
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