America is quite possibly the greatest nation to have ever existed. I know some recent immigrants from europe that don't like certain things like paying for health insurance, but the fact is they moved here to get a better life and they admit it. Sure I have things I complain about, but everybody complains about something regardless of what country they live in or how good they have it. The american bashers are getting some kind of sick pay off for what they say, either false self righteousness or venting jealousy or fear or spite. The pro-american people are just showing pride and being thankfull for what they have. You pick which group you would rather be in, I have made my choice.
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Bush's Plan to conquer...errrr.....liberate Iraq
- Thread starter OPTIONAL777
- Start date
Quote from MondoTrader:
The american bashers are getting some kind of sick pay off for what they say, either false self righteousness or venting jealousy or fear or spite. The pro-american people are just showing pride and being thankfull for what they have. You pick which group you would rather be in, I have made my choice.
Is it possible to love America, to think she is the best country existing, and to simultaneously believe that the people leading her are making mistakes?
Quote from Madison:
Is it possible to love America, to think she is the best country existing, and to simultaneously believe that the people leading her are making mistakes?
Of course it is possible. And those who live here and pay taxes, who are granted certain rights under our constitution, that are part of the "family" can and should exercise "their" constitutional right to try to improve America in every imaginable way.
However, those spineless handles from across the seas...well, let them eat shit and die when it comes to critiques of America.
As if......like they have they live in perfect worlds, and perfect countries, and perfect societies, and are acting out of a "love" of America....with their criticism.
If that energy could be focused on their own little countries, perhaps they could improve the quality of their own lives.
Criticize your own family all you want, but criticize my family, and you deal with the consequences.
Of course it is. However, one must then assume that if you believe there are mistakes being made, then you must have SOLUTIONS to propose to correct those mistakes.Quote from Madison:
Is it possible to love America, to think she is the best country existing, and to simultaneously believe that the people leading her are making mistakes?
Let's hear yours. Are you going to duck my post forever?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=183776#post183776
Wild signs every one of his posts with "regards," and yet there's nothing about his posts that demonstrates any collegiality or congeniality, or, for that matter, any "regard" whatsoever for the intelligence, sensitivities, interests, or individualities of the rest of us. Nor does he, except where he apparently finds it convenient, demonstrate any "regard" for the specific ideas or arguments expressed in other people's posts. Charges are not facts, selective half-truths are not the truth, and delivering links and quotations as though from somewere above us is not an attempt to discuss matters of mutual concern with an attitude of respect or friendly "regard."
Wild's refusal to speak for himself further indicates a complete lack of interest in dialogue, and reinforces the impression that his intentions are purely malicious. Rather than attempting to persuade us or to help us understand his viewpoint, he merely brings forward whatever tangential anti-Americanism he happens to have at hand - whether the work of a musician, the PLO's ex-lawyer, a conspiracy nut, or, as in the case of the Dresden material, an obviously biased advocate attempting to make a case before a pseudo-juridical "tribunal." Pieces such as the Boyle document on the Gulf War ("The author served as Legal Advisor: to the Palestine Liberation Organization on Creation of the State of Palestine (1987-1989), to the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations (1991-1993) and sometime to the Provisional Government of the State of Palestine"), likewise offer precious little, except to remind us that there are anti-American or, if you prefer, anti-U.S. government mouthpieces in the world.
By remaining in the background, wild also manages to introduce his variously scurrilous, inane, tendentious, or merely absurd documents without ever having to take direct responsibility for their content. Does wild really believe, as he seemed to be arguing on another chit-chat thread, that the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon was faked? Does he really believe that the U.S. was on the wrong side in World War II or the Gulf War? He hasn't told us and may never. It doesn't seem to matter to him what we believe about him or his beliefs: All that seems to matter to him is that he's managed to make his secondhand attacks on the United States before an offendable audience.
Though I reject the ethnic and homophobic attacks on wild, I do wonder about his motivations, conscious or otherwise. His main interest on ET, both on the threads and in the chatroom, seems to be to insult and annoy the vast majority of us who happen to be Americans or happen to maintain American sympathies. He does not converse with us - he snipes at us. Whether he's simply a lonely German crank or something worse, nothing that he's contributed indicates to me the openness and flexibility required of someone who would seek the truth rather than merely score hits. Instead, we get this parody of the European elitist intellectual - so convinced of his own superiority that he cannot communicate except condescendingly.
All in all, his "signature" comes across to me as deeply hypocritical. I think it would be more honest if he signed his posts "fuck you."
regards, especially to wild,
KymarFye
Wild's refusal to speak for himself further indicates a complete lack of interest in dialogue, and reinforces the impression that his intentions are purely malicious. Rather than attempting to persuade us or to help us understand his viewpoint, he merely brings forward whatever tangential anti-Americanism he happens to have at hand - whether the work of a musician, the PLO's ex-lawyer, a conspiracy nut, or, as in the case of the Dresden material, an obviously biased advocate attempting to make a case before a pseudo-juridical "tribunal." Pieces such as the Boyle document on the Gulf War ("The author served as Legal Advisor: to the Palestine Liberation Organization on Creation of the State of Palestine (1987-1989), to the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations (1991-1993) and sometime to the Provisional Government of the State of Palestine"), likewise offer precious little, except to remind us that there are anti-American or, if you prefer, anti-U.S. government mouthpieces in the world.
By remaining in the background, wild also manages to introduce his variously scurrilous, inane, tendentious, or merely absurd documents without ever having to take direct responsibility for their content. Does wild really believe, as he seemed to be arguing on another chit-chat thread, that the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon was faked? Does he really believe that the U.S. was on the wrong side in World War II or the Gulf War? He hasn't told us and may never. It doesn't seem to matter to him what we believe about him or his beliefs: All that seems to matter to him is that he's managed to make his secondhand attacks on the United States before an offendable audience.
Though I reject the ethnic and homophobic attacks on wild, I do wonder about his motivations, conscious or otherwise. His main interest on ET, both on the threads and in the chatroom, seems to be to insult and annoy the vast majority of us who happen to be Americans or happen to maintain American sympathies. He does not converse with us - he snipes at us. Whether he's simply a lonely German crank or something worse, nothing that he's contributed indicates to me the openness and flexibility required of someone who would seek the truth rather than merely score hits. Instead, we get this parody of the European elitist intellectual - so convinced of his own superiority that he cannot communicate except condescendingly.
All in all, his "signature" comes across to me as deeply hypocritical. I think it would be more honest if he signed his posts "fuck you."
regards, especially to wild,
KymarFye
You know, KF, are just going to get a response from Wild that is a link to some website......He may just be an autobot, programmed to buy the euro, and slam Uncle Sam....
By the way, what is it that you don't find funny about Gay Nazis?
By the way, what is it that you don't find funny about Gay Nazis?
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
You know, KF, are just going to get a response from Wild that is a link to some website......He may just be an autobot, programmed to buy the euro, and slam Uncle Sam....
By the way, what is it that you don't find funny about Gay Nazis?
Don't really care whether I get a response from wild... I'd put him on ignore, except that he's one of those people (if, indeed, he is a human being) whose posts I'd rather be able to monitor. Maybe because once upon a time I took some of that typical wild stuff seriously - I mean many years ago - I feel some responsibility to address it, at least from time to time.
As for Gay Nazis: Sorry, but your attempted personal attacks on wild strike me as offensive in themselves, and as counterproductive. It's also never been clear to me where you got the idea that wild was gay or might be offended by being called gay. I suspect, though it's just a guess, that he enjoys being insulted in this way, as it just gives him a chance to show how above-it-all he is. I've not seen the basis for calling wild a Nazi either. I believe you said once that he was one of those people who claimed the Holocaust never happened, or that its extent has been heavily exaggerated by anti-German propagandists, but I've not seen him stating or linking such viewpoints. Again, by generally ignoring the seemingly baseless charges, he may think that he demonstrates that he's above them.
quote from hapaboy
01-15-03 01:44 AM
WHERE IS WILD FROM?
For all we know, he's sitting in Hamburg in some roach-infested apartment, pizza delivery boxes everywhere, sitting at some table strewn with diagrams, chemical formulas, microscopes, and TNT, reading "Suicide Bombing For Dummies" & the CliffsNotes edition of "I Hate America, a How-To-Primer" co-authored by Fairplay, Madison, & Candle.
He's been avoiding this forever. I wonder why....
So Wild, come out, come out wherever you are and tell us......
....
01-16-03 01:12 AM
Re: Re: WHERE IS WILD FROM?
...
As far as Wild goes, I am virtually certain that he is not a student of Sun Tzu, and would recognize the name only if it came up on one of his internet searches so he could cut and paste it. I think you give him entirely too much credit, especially since he has not had the honesty to come forth and tell us his background. For all we know he could be Bin Laden himself!! I sure hope he is; knowing Wild and BL are one and the same would do much to allay my country that BL is no genius, twisted or otherwise....
regards
wild
01-15-03 01:44 AM
WHERE IS WILD FROM?
For all we know, he's sitting in Hamburg in some roach-infested apartment, pizza delivery boxes everywhere, sitting at some table strewn with diagrams, chemical formulas, microscopes, and TNT, reading "Suicide Bombing For Dummies" & the CliffsNotes edition of "I Hate America, a How-To-Primer" co-authored by Fairplay, Madison, & Candle.
He's been avoiding this forever. I wonder why....
So Wild, come out, come out wherever you are and tell us......
....
01-16-03 01:12 AM
Re: Re: WHERE IS WILD FROM?
...
As far as Wild goes, I am virtually certain that he is not a student of Sun Tzu, and would recognize the name only if it came up on one of his internet searches so he could cut and paste it. I think you give him entirely too much credit, especially since he has not had the honesty to come forth and tell us his background. For all we know he could be Bin Laden himself!! I sure hope he is; knowing Wild and BL are one and the same would do much to allay my country that BL is no genius, twisted or otherwise....
regards
wild
Quote from KymarFye:
Don't really care whether I get a response from wild... I'd put him on ignore, except that he's one of those people (if, indeed, he is a human being) whose posts I'd rather be able to monitor. Maybe because once upon a time I took some of that typical wild stuff seriously - I mean many years ago - I feel some responsibility to address it, at least from time to time.
As for Gay Nazis: Sorry, but your attempted personal attacks on wild strike me as offensive in themselves, and as counterproductive. It's also never been clear to me where you got the idea that wild was gay or might be offended by being called gay. I suspect, though it's just a guess, that he enjoys being insulted in this way, as it just gives him a chance to show how above-it-all he is. I've not seen the basis for calling wild a Nazi either. I believe you said once that he was one of those people who claimed the Holocaust never happened, or that its extent has been heavily exaggerated by anti-German propagandists, but I've not seen him stating or linking such viewpoints. Again, by generally ignoring the seemingly baseless charges, he may think that he demonstrates that he's above them.
I guess that means that Gay Nazi's don't make you laugh....
That you find any comments I make offensive, is of course a personal experience for you and not subject to debate.
Where did I get the idea that Wild was gay? Call it intuition.
That you find comments of mine counterproductive, that is of course your opinion. I find nothing much in the way of discussion with or about Wild terribly productive.
As far as the link I referred to and his comments or opinions on the holocaust, I am referring to a link that was posted by him in chat...probably early in the morning or when you weren't there. The discussion of concentration camps was brought up, and somehow, he took upon himself to compare the situation for the detainees currently in Guantanamo Bay to the concentration camps of the Germans in WWII, indicating they were on an equivalent level, if not worse as I recall.
I brought up the holocaust, and the treatment of Jews, and he posted a link to the treatment of prisoners in concentration camps during the Boer Wars in South Africa....with some comments by the author of article on the web site that the holocaust was simply "purported" and not nearly as bad as the treatment those suffered in the Boer Wars. At the end of the link and the article, was a reference list, with all the authors having German names.....
Does that mean he is in denial about the holocaust, or one of those who suggest that it never happened?
Who knows? I have never seen him focus on much beyond America and its influences around the world.
Wild can believe himself to be superior...who knows? It is not hard to imagine though, given his act.
Quote from OPTIONAL777:
I find nothing much in the way of discussion with or about Wild terribly productive.
***
Wild can believe himself to be superior...who knows? It is not hard to imagine though, given his act.
Well, just to continue this completely unproductive discussion a bit further, I find myself wondering whether he's more weird than malicious. If it's more the former, then he may merely seem condescending, when he's actually just kind of nuts, and not necessarily very intelligent. Or maybe he just lacks self-confidence, either in his English or in himself. Or maybe he really can't express himself. Maybe he doesn't even really understand much of this discussion or much of what he posts - or as much as he either thinks he does or would like us to think he does.
Why he would respond to this all with those Hapaboy quotations is unclear to me, for instance: My guess is that he thinks he's just throwing "our" words back at us - he even may see it as an artistic, ironic gesture, or it may be as childish a gesture as it looks, or even both - but, whatever the explanation, it makes me want to vote "weird," though not excluding "malicious."