I personally think he'll get the PM job, but if it's Teresa May instead I think she'll be more than capable.
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BREXIT
- Thread starter oldnemesis
- Start date
I personally think he'll get the PM job, but if it's Teresa May instead I think she'll be more than capable.
This is also why the hysterical reaction of the EU big wigs and the likes of conduit (marketsurfer) is so ridiculous. Britain gets what it wants by leaving the EU and business continues mostly as usual. The scenario just needs time to play out. Instead we're seeing childish reactions of a few drama queens in apparent meltdown.
Are mutual defence treaties part of CSDP or not? Is this not the primary reason why NATO is the primary guarantor of peace in Europe? If you think that any military moves in Europe, especially against Russia, are going to happen without American agreement or support, you might need to think again.
Latvia and Estonia are NATO members. I would be the last person to defend NATO, but the UK remains bound by the NATO framework, regardless of Brexit. I am not really sure what your point is here.
They're all just going to have to live with their "grave worries", just like everyone else.
Yes, I have checked, in fact. Have you? I have looked at a variety of exit polls, to examine the breakdown beyond the widely reported one. Have you?
As to the misrepresentation, I have just one thing to mention here. Where is George Osborne's threatened "emergency budget" now, with all the tax hikes etc? No sign of it in his speech the other day. Magic, innit?
Finally, do you have any evidence to support your assertions that the gullible voted because of their "hatred and anger"? What if the older voters are simply better informed and understand more of the world than the young? As to your silliness about WWII veterans, firstly, pls leave them out of it, 'cause they have earned their right to vote whichever f*ckin' way they choose w/o being questioned by the likes of you and I. Secondly, there are probably less than 300,000 WWII veterans still alive in Britain today, so how on Earth they can overrule anyone is beyond me. And yes, I know about Sunderland.
There is a lot of information out there that has covered this already. Maybe if you weren't quite so certain that the vote was all about bigotry and xenophobia related to immigration, you could look at all that material.
Huh? Corbyn is not in government, so what does he have to do with anything? However, since you mention him, yes, he should definitely resign.
Well, I am sorry, but it's a rather lengthy task. I will happily oblige, but not right now.
My point is that if Nato took over the mandate if a European member state is attacked or if European security was violated then the UK would most likely take part, if, however, Europe would want to go the route via CSDP first the rest of Europe can at the moment not be sure what the UK's stance would be. And that is highly worrisome.
You would be the last person to defend the Nato? Are you in disagreement with them, too?
Re war veterans, the situation, as you are well aware of, is that it is not just the veterans in the UK themselves who seem to have never forgiven (at least the majority has not) but it is the brainwashed kids, and their grand kids who behave and conduct themselves as if they themselves were sent to Auschwitz. In all reality, Germany has forged close ties with Britain for the past 60 years. There are school exchanges (at least there were at my school when I attended Junior and High school in Germany) between English schools and Germany schools and the level of prejudice towards Germans was already mind-blowing to me at a very young age. So, yes as a matter of fact most of the votes that were cast in favor of exit was the above 50 year old, a large share of which are retirees, and large masses of people from region that harbor factories that are in direct competition with corporations in Europe. Everyone has a right to vote whichever way they want but it still does not change anything of the demographics of the voters and their specific choices. It would probably not be very hard to argue that the average educational and knowledge level in Sunderland is a very different one than the average in London, for example.
I have looked at all the material, and so has the rest of Europe. The only outcries Europeans heard from across the channel was immigration, immigration, immigration while the UK has hardly taken on any refugees at all. The other outcry concerned the fear of a federalist union something the UK has never actually subjected itself to. Combine that with the fact that the UK has hardly laid plausible arguments for their fear and disagreements on the table in Brussels for the rest of Europe to see and talk about then you might understand that this decision caused more than just raised eyebrows and bewilderment. From my reading of broad based opinion of Central Europeans it looks like that there was a growing discontentment with Britain's attitude towards Europe. It cannot be ignored that the UK often times looked to pick and choose exclusively what benefited itself without willingly accepting the cost of this union. The UK already enjoyed more exemptions and concessions than any other European nation but even that was not enough.
Constant bickering without providing alternative solution frustrated so many European policy makers that in the end Cameron got nothing. He was told in a pretty straight forward fashion to "take what you got or fuck off".
So, they fucked off, to the benefit and relief of either side. We are now all waiting for the UK's next move. You can of course take the liberty and hold your view that the UK can let everyone wait. But that does not make it right. It is irresponsible to stand with one leg in the union and another leg outside. If California held a referendum to leave the union and it went through then rightly would the rest of the union expect California to take every step to swiftly and smoothly implement such decision. That is expected of the UK and Britain's lawmakers know it and hopefully will start moving soon.
You would be the last person to defend the Nato? Are you in disagreement with them, too?
Re war veterans, the situation, as you are well aware of, is that it is not just the veterans in the UK themselves who seem to have never forgiven (at least the majority has not) but it is the brainwashed kids, and their grand kids who behave and conduct themselves as if they themselves were sent to Auschwitz. In all reality, Germany has forged close ties with Britain for the past 60 years. There are school exchanges (at least there were at my school when I attended Junior and High school in Germany) between English schools and Germany schools and the level of prejudice towards Germans was already mind-blowing to me at a very young age. So, yes as a matter of fact most of the votes that were cast in favor of exit was the above 50 year old, a large share of which are retirees, and large masses of people from region that harbor factories that are in direct competition with corporations in Europe. Everyone has a right to vote whichever way they want but it still does not change anything of the demographics of the voters and their specific choices. It would probably not be very hard to argue that the average educational and knowledge level in Sunderland is a very different one than the average in London, for example.
I have looked at all the material, and so has the rest of Europe. The only outcries Europeans heard from across the channel was immigration, immigration, immigration while the UK has hardly taken on any refugees at all. The other outcry concerned the fear of a federalist union something the UK has never actually subjected itself to. Combine that with the fact that the UK has hardly laid plausible arguments for their fear and disagreements on the table in Brussels for the rest of Europe to see and talk about then you might understand that this decision caused more than just raised eyebrows and bewilderment. From my reading of broad based opinion of Central Europeans it looks like that there was a growing discontentment with Britain's attitude towards Europe. It cannot be ignored that the UK often times looked to pick and choose exclusively what benefited itself without willingly accepting the cost of this union. The UK already enjoyed more exemptions and concessions than any other European nation but even that was not enough.
Constant bickering without providing alternative solution frustrated so many European policy makers that in the end Cameron got nothing. He was told in a pretty straight forward fashion to "take what you got or fuck off".
So, they fucked off, to the benefit and relief of either side. We are now all waiting for the UK's next move. You can of course take the liberty and hold your view that the UK can let everyone wait. But that does not make it right. It is irresponsible to stand with one leg in the union and another leg outside. If California held a referendum to leave the union and it went through then rightly would the rest of the union expect California to take every step to swiftly and smoothly implement such decision. That is expected of the UK and Britain's lawmakers know it and hopefully will start moving soon.
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EU-UK Divorce Proceedings still a way off: The U.K. may have voted to leave the EU, but while EU Officials are pressing for a quick start of exit negotiations, there doesn't seem to be in a sense of urgency in the U.K.. Germany ruled out informal negotiations, and indeed, while EU officials are giving up hope that the exit process will be formally launched at a summit this week, they are indicating that the U.K. needs to trigger article 50 and that there won't be informal talks. David Cameron is expected to explain the U.K's position at a dinner tomorrow, but with Cameron himself stepping down later in the year, it is not even clear who will lead the exit talks. The Brexiteers may have won the referendum, but there doesn't seem a strategy in place what to do next and whether Cameron's successor will want the U.K. to stay in the single market, which would also leave the EU's freedom of movement rules untouched, or press ahead with a total break, which was the policy of the official leave campaign. As long as this is unknown, informal talks seem unlikely. So the referendum is out of the way, but uncertainty about the U.K.'s future relationship with the EU remains open.
S.AE .R2 GEN.AE EUROPE.AE
Source: Action Economics
S.AE .R2 GEN.AE EUROPE.AE
Source: Action Economics
It sounds very much like you have been brainwashed. Brits have a good relationship with Germany these days, we like to tease each other, and there's a mutual respect due to a lot of similarities. Goodness knows where you get your news intake from. But don't let the more mundane reality get in the way if it doesn't fit your narrative.
But, given precedent of, among others, Iraq, Europe can never be sure of the stance of the individual member states anyway, Brexit or no Brexit. In fact, this fundamental principle is enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty, which, among other things, specifically mentions NATO commitments as senior to CSDP. So, again, no additional uncertainty has been created in this area by Brexit, contrary to your assertion.
Yes, I have issues with NATO, which I have previously mentioned in another thread here.
Hold on, I thought you said the vote was mostly about immigration? Unless we're talking about waves of German immigration into the UK, I am confused why Auschwitz and prejudices against the Germans come into this.
Finally, again, the age breakdown is well-known, but so are the responses in the exit polls where the voters give their rationale for voting. As to the educational and knowledge levels in Sunderland vs London, yes, that's likely, but then so are the issues people face in Sunderland. Maybe they have a better visceral understanding of what the vote means? What basis do you have to dismiss their votes as somehow less valid than those cast by the Londoners?
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Well... I cannot be part of such a conversation without making a statement. First read this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-50-Germans-cold-blood-reveals-new-book.html
The British, now the mostly dead grandfathers of the current younger population, were a lot more involved in all this than Americans were. Still... I can tell you that my father came home from the war and was never the same (so my mother told me). From my father's point of view ALL Germans were genetically inhuman monsters and he used to say that we should have taken the opportunity at the end of the war to completely erase the German race. "kill them all" was the kindest thing he could say about Germans until his dying day.
It would have killed him to see a renewed Germany as we have it today. Don't make jokes about Auschwitz... it was real and there is a genetic defect in a race that could commit such crimes.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-50-Germans-cold-blood-reveals-new-book.html
The British, now the mostly dead grandfathers of the current younger population, were a lot more involved in all this than Americans were. Still... I can tell you that my father came home from the war and was never the same (so my mother told me). From my father's point of view ALL Germans were genetically inhuman monsters and he used to say that we should have taken the opportunity at the end of the war to completely erase the German race. "kill them all" was the kindest thing he could say about Germans until his dying day.
It would have killed him to see a renewed Germany as we have it today. Don't make jokes about Auschwitz... it was real and there is a genetic defect in a race that could commit such crimes.