Brexit

Brexit

  • Stay in EU

    Votes: 14 26.4%

  • Leave EU

    Votes: 39 73.6%
  • Total voters
    53
i am nobody said:
I live in Europe and travel all the time between 3 European countries. In all three of them immigration is a big issue. Also dictatorship of the European Parlement is a big issue.
If the UK is smart they leave Europe. The 2 wealthiest countries in Europe are Norway and Switzerland. They both are NOT member of the European Union. So the argument that membership will bring prosperty and more economical growth is bullshit. If not Norway and Switzerland would be economical graveyards.
The European Union was mainly created to dump old politicians that did not get elected anymore and give them a very fat salary and other benefits.
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Here's why you are completely and utterly wrong, in fact you have it backwards.
Switzerland and Norway didn't join EU because they were already far wealthier than other countries in Europe. Not being in the EU did not change this one bit.

Here's Norway's GDP vs Sweden's GDP to illustrate. Sweden joined in 1995, the countries are very similar, tell me how did joining EU penalize them:

(Elite Trader can't embed data from Trading Economics)

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/emb...false&url2=/sweden/gdp-per-capita&h=300&w=600

Austria v. Switzerland:

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/cha...0101&d2=20161231&url2=/austria/gdp-per-capita
 
d08 said:
Here's why you are completely and utterly wrong, in fact you have it backwards.
Switzerland and Norway didn't join EU because they were already far wealthier than other countries in Europe. Not being in the EU did not change this one bit.

Here's Norway's GDP vs Sweden's GDP to illustrate. Sweden joined in 1995, the countries are very similar, tell me how did joining EU penalize them:
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Maybe I expressed it wrong. In the UK those who are against Brexit say that leaving would damage the British economy very hard. That is the main reason why they should stay in the European Union. What I wanted to show is that is complete nonsense as Norway and Switzerland are not part of the European Union and have a very strong economy. Being in or out the European Union makes no difference. But in the Union you lose a lot of your independance.
GDP tells nothing about all the money that is transfered from national to European Union organizations. A parliament in Strasbourg and also in Brussels means that there are over 100 million travel expenses just because France does not want to give up Strasbourg. All these stupid expenses have to be paid by taxpayers. Europe is costing a lot more than the profit we have from it. The different national attitudes versus the illegal immigration and refugees show clearly that Europe is not working. Europe can never become like the US as there are far to many different cultures. Scandinavia, South Europe and East Europe are three complete different worlds.
 
i am nobody said:
Maybe I expressed it wrong. In the UK those who are against Brexit say that leaving would damage the British economy very hard. That is the main reason why they should stay in the European Union. What I wanted to show is that is complete nonsense as Norway and Switzerland are not part of the European Union and have a very strong economy. Being in or out the European Union makes no difference. But in the Union you lose a lot of your independance.
GDP tells nothing about all the money that is transfered from national to European Union organizations. A parliament in Strasbourg and also in Brussels means that there are over 100 million travel expenses just because France does not want to give up Strasbourg. All these stupid expenses have to be paid by taxpayers. Europe is costing a lot more than the profit we have from it. The different national attitudes versus the illegal immigration and refugees show clearly that Europe is not working. Europe can never become like the US as there are far to many different cultures. Scandinavia, South Europe and East Europe are three complete different worlds.
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I agree that the EU is a hugely wasteful organization and I don't particularly like it. Strasbourg parliament is a complete joke, French EU politicians are simply spitting on everyone else in the union. But hey, they're French, what can you expect.

I also think the EU as it is now won't ever work. Smaller unions will though.

The power of EU comes from trade negotiations and corporate penalties.
"Pay the fine or you can't do business in UK anymore" or "Pay the fine or you can't do business in the EU anymore" - big difference.
US also said any UK trade deal will fall behind if they exit.

Brexit supporters don't like to admit that there are savings also being in the EU - trade negotiations, ease of doing business, tariffs on some products would be introduced. Certain projects will have requirements that it's built in the EU - UK will be automatically excluded.

Don't trust this word for word but it's worth to note:

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year, or 52% of the total trade in goods and services. Complete withdrawal from the EU would see trade barriers erected, with car exports to the EU, for example, facing a 15% tariff and imports a tariff of 10%. "The idea that the UK would be freer outside the EU is based on a series of misconceptions, that a medium-sized, open economy could hold sway in an increasingly fractured trading system dominated by the US, the EU and China; that the EU makes it harder for Britain to penetrate emerging markets; and that foreign capital would be more attracted to Britain's economy if it were no longer part of the single market," the pro-EU Centre for European Reform said in a recent report.
 
If Brexit does happen (i am voting for it, but i don't think it will happen), the impact of the 2nd largest economy in Europe (people seem to forget that the UK is the 2nd after Germany) leaving the EU will probably finish the EU off.

A new EU could then be formed, perhaps purely as a trading zone rather than a political one. The UK could then be part of such a new EU.
 
Unions of different cultural, political, ethnic and economic systems are very difficult to sustain if the only benefit is economics, unless there is integration as in a "melting pot" effect like in the US. No one likes to be told what to do by someone from a different "tribe" and it is very difficult to distribute economic benefits fairly and evenly so someone will eventually rebel. Look at Iraq, Syria... Sunni vs Kurd vs Shiite... The world and history books were full of examples of short term unions that eventually fell apart. Europe's history is but one example.

My non-professional and non-economist opinion is the economic benefits are overrated and the EU's expensive overhead and bureaucracy are going to impede innovations and productivity growth for the EU members. Britain's exit will cause short term pain for everyone but long term harm is perhaps minimal and they gain back their political independence.
 
Visaria said:
If Brexit does happen (i am voting for it, but i don't think it will happen), the impact of the 2nd largest economy in Europe (people seem to forget that the UK is the 2nd after Germany) leaving the EU will probably finish the EU off.

A new EU could then be formed, perhaps purely as a trading zone rather than a political one. The UK could then be part of such a new EU.
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That is what I wanted way back in the 1970s.
The idiots in Brussels just won't make the system viable and that is why it will break up.
 
Visaria said:
If Brexit does happen (i am voting for it, but i don't think it will happen), the impact of the 2nd largest economy in Europe (people seem to forget that the UK is the 2nd after Germany) leaving the EU will probably finish the EU off.

A new EU could then be formed, perhaps purely as a trading zone rather than a political one. The UK could then be part of such a new EU.
More...

Exhibit A: Donald Trump

Every expert, academic, journalist, the Pope, leaders from around the world and even the US president fearmongered THE SHIT about how Trump winning would be a disaster.

Me thinks if the Remain campaign continue their daily dose of fear, Brexit may well will win by a landslide come June.
 
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Scotland's SNP wants IN
Wales seems undecided
NI undecided
Cameron wants IN

There are going to be big winners and losers in the business and betting world. For the rest of us just one big yawn as the politicians work themselves up into a frenzy.
 
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