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Brain Teasers
- Thread starter prescott
- Start date
Quote from daniel_m:
commisso, the question was "HOW did they know"?
the only "correct" answer to that question is to explain HOW they knew. so, i ask you, on what basis can you possibly claim to "know the answer" when you haven't provided us with an explanation of how the monks knew?
Technically, Te' has stated HOW they knew. He just didn't explain how they knew that they knew.
Quote from Te':
You are still not getting it danny boy, if all this time you knew i had the dot, when the visitor came you would have said ahhhh nice Te' is the one with the dot, he will have to kill himself, see you assumed you were in the clear and that i knew... but when you wake and im still here you know you are fucked, because if I didn't kill myself then I must have seen one on you and now your precious logic that you swear by would have it that we both have them!!!! Get it now danny??...
Quote from daniel_m:
with THREE people, well, then you have no way of KNOWING, do you? and if you DO have a way of knowing, why not EXPLAIN to me what this way is? just claiming "i know how they can know" is no explanation.
Let us assume that it's three people, and only two of them have the disease. On the first night each one of the diseased monks will see only one monk with a dot and one monk without a dot. If he returns on the next day and the one guy wiith the dot returns as well, then he knows that that other guy must have seen someone with a dot, and since it cannot have been the third guy, it must be he himself. Therefore he kills himself after the second day. So does the other one. The one who was not ill has always seen two guys with a dot, so he knew that they would kill themselves after the second day if they were the only two with a dot. If they are dead after the second day, he knows that actually was the case and lives happily ever after. If they both return after the second day, he knows that each one of them must have seen two guys with a dot, so he knows that they all have the dot and they will all kill themselves after the third night.
Quote from Te':
what if you and i were on an island and someone came and said the one with the dot on their head must committ suicide??? Well all this time you have seen the dot on my head and I have seen on your head... If you wake on the 2nd day and see me then your fucked bro
commisso, i would certainly NOT think i'm fucked. because if the visitor had stated the one with a dot on his head must die, and i see a dot on YOUR head and you don't kill yourself, i'd think you are cheating. ( If we BOTH have the dot, then we'd both have to die, except in your scenario above, the visitor says "the one".)
Quote from daniel_m:
commisso, i would certainly NOT think i'm fucked. because if the visitor had stated the one with a dot on his head must die, and i see a dot on YOUR head and you don't kill yourself, i'd think you are cheating. ( If we BOTH have the dot, then we'd both have to die, except in your scenario above, the visitor says "the one".)
Well see thats the thing, as a part of the riddle you have to assume that all themonks are completely rational and will follow the orders to kill themselves... assume there can be no cheating if you want to play danny boy...
Quote from Lobster:
Let us assume that it's three people, and only two of them have the disease. On the first night each one of the diseased monks will see only one monk with a dot and one monk without a dot. If he returns on the next day and the one guy wiith the dot returns as well, then he knows that that other guy must have seen someone with a dot, and since it cannot have been the third guy, it must be he himself. Therefore he kills himself after the second day. So does the other one. The one who was not ill has always seen two guys with a dot, so he knew that they would kill themselves after the second day if they were the only two with a dot. If they are dead after the second day, he knows that actually was the case and lives happily ever after. If they both return after the second day, he knows that each one of them must have seen two guys with a dot, so he knows that they all have the dot and they will all kill themselves after the third night.
i don't follow you at all. you are saying these guys didn't know how many of them had the dot?
in that case, no one monk could ever be certain if has the dot or not.
in the case that we aren't told how many monks have a dot, the only way i could be certain that _I_ have the dot, is if we are told at least one person has it. then i look around, don't see anyone else, and I know it's me.
if we aren't told how many and i see 5 other monks with dots, it doesn't tell anything at all about ME having a dot or not, so i would have no reason to kill myself.
Quote from Te':
Well see thats the thing, as a part of the riddle you have to assume that all themonks are completely rational and will follow the orders to kill themselves... assume there can be no cheating if you want to play danny boy...
SOOOOOO commisso, if _I_ saw YOU with a dot, i would KNOW it was YOU that has to kill yourself.
under no circumstances would i even think of killing myself. i have been given the criteria for suicide, i see that YOU satisfy it, so i would assume you would kill yourself.
BUT in the example you gave me, you had me seeing YOU with the dot, and then seeing YOU wake up the next day (alive). under those circumstances, i can only imagine you cheated.
Quote from daniel_m:
i don't follow you at all. you are saying these guys didn't know how many of them had the dot?
in that case, no one monk could ever be certain if has the dot or not.
in the case that we aren't told how many monks have a dot, the only way i could be certain that _I_ have the dot, is if we are told at least one person has it. then i look around, don't see anyone else, and I know it's me.
if we aren't told how many and i see 5 other monks with dots, it doesn't tell anything at all about ME having a dot or not, so i would have no reason to kill myself.
Dan you are told how many by the number of days the monks stay alive... If you cannot grasp the above example then you will never get it and i would stop now...