Border Patrol arrests drop sharply in June

[UsualName]

"So the wall won’t help anything. Drugs and people will still come in to meet demand. I’m sorry but the wall is a symbol not a solution."

The past few years have shown how tremendously effective a wall is build around technology -- the apprehension rate has gone up to nearly 50%.

"I’m against the perpetual reregistering of unauthorized aliens because it creates a caste system, those with voting rights and those without. They simply would be at the mercy of the people. It’s not right."

What are you going to do with the 11 million to 14 million illegal immigrants currently in the U.S. - most are working, not committing crimes and adding value to our society? Deport them all?

In terms of voting rights - what is the different between legal immigrants on H1-B Visas, etc. and illegal immigrants (Answer: Nothing). People on H1-B Visas, Green Cards, etc. don't consider themselves to be lower members of a caste system.

We need a practical solution for all the illegal immigrants currently in the U.S. - most U.S. citizens will not support automatically granting them citizenship for coming here illegally (the most pissed would be immigrants who came here legally). Most people would support a Visa system with renewals and the ability to apply for Green Card status then citizenship over time.

"E verify, yes!!! This is what will be most effective. Right now will still have the fun show loop hole in employment. The key is to not make businesses pay a fee. We as tax payers must shoulder the bill."

I agree it is time for government to firmly enforce E-Verify and increase penalties for deliberately hiring illegals.

Are you talking about a “big, beautiful wall” or the smart use of technology to monitor our border. Technology is definitely the way to go. A stationary structure is not, at least on whole.

I would not advocate deporting anyone in good standing. I probably look at this differently than you. I see the vast majority of undocumented people as encouraged to enter our country to join the building trades and build houses for this country, as this was the main magnet. Now they have been villainized. It’s not right. They deserve citizenship. Not right away but over time, IMO.

E verify is the real wall. If you want to stop illegal immigration this will solve about 80% of it.

 

[piezoe]

Actually you are correct after doing some research -- the border apprehensions went up greatly percentage-wise during the Obama administration. Prior this the suggested apprehension rates were lower than 10% (and usually under 1%).

By 2015 the percentage of apprehensions near increased to 50% -- mainly due to technology.

One article providing context below...

Barely half of illegal border crossers caught, according to Homeland Security report
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-border-crossing-captures-20161006-story.html

"In terms of people, 170,000 eluded capture during the 2015 fiscal year, 210,000 the previous year, and 1.7 million in 2005."

You are one of those I have the greatest respect for on ET. Though we quite often don't agree, it is over point of view rather than hard facts. You are well informed and seldom do you have to retract anything. So thank you.

 

[piezoe]

I explained that it is disgusting that leftists advocate for massive immigration

jem, if I may interject, this quote above is emblematic of a gulf of misunderstanding that affects our well-considered communication. There is no one that I know of that is an ",,,advocate for massive immigration." Though massive immigration might well be the unintended consequence of a particular immigration policy, there is no one, jem, that advocates for this. The debate is over issues like what should qualify a person for immigration into the U.S., and what kind of background, training and education do we want in our immigrants What number should we accept on humanitarian grounds, etc. When you get on your "lefty" high horse and start raving about things that do not exist in reality it becomes hard to take you seriously, to put it mildly.

 

[gwb-trading]

You are one of those I have the greatest respect for on ET. Though we quite often don't agree, it is over point of view rather than hard facts. You are well informed and seldom do you have to retract anything. So thank you.

Thank you for the kind words.

I believe it is important to start a discussion based on the facts. When I get the proven facts wrong I am perfectly willing to come back and provided corrected information with backing.

If people start a conversation with the facts in context then the discussion can be much more productive as everyone offers their opinions and perspectives.

I certainly disagree with people on both sides on the aisle on policy and other issues. I welcome a robust and civil discussion on political topics but prefer if people would avoid the name calling & pure propaganda.

 

[jem]

piezoe...
1. you must cease taking quotes out of context...
here is my full quote...

"I explained that it is disgusting that leftists advocate for massive immigration and then complain about poverty levels."

By chopping my quote... you turned my statement into a straw man... which then allowed you to create a specious argument... which I will not address.

2. Now to your incredible piece of sophistry. You don't need to say the words "massive immigration" to support massive immigration.


arguing for the status quo is arguing for massive immigration. That is the result of our current policy.

We take in more immigrants than any other country in the world.
(about a million a year)
We have more immigrants here than any time in US history.
We have more immigrants as a percent of the population as anytime in the last 125 years.

(on top of that you ad in 10 to 30 million illegal immigrants.)

Nobody but a marxist would argue that is not massive immigration.


3. . Finally when you have many democrats arguing for no border checks and no ICE.
What the hell is that if it is not arguing for massive immigration.
In other polls around 30 percent of democrats say that illegal aliens should be allowed to stay.

jem, if I may interject, this quote above is emblematic of a gulf of misunderstanding that affects our well-considered communication. There is no one that I know of that is an ",,,advocate for massive immigration." Though massive immigration might well be the unintended consequence of a particular immigration policy, there is no one, jem, that advocates for this. The debate is over issues like what should qualify a person for immigration into the U.S., and what kind of background, training and education do we want in our immigrants What number should we accept on humanitarian grounds, etc. When you get on your "lefty" high horse and start raving about things that do not exist in reality it becomes hard to take you seriously, to put it mildly.

 

[piezoe]

piezoe...
1. you must cease taking quotes out of context...
here is my full quote...

"I explained that it is disgusting that leftists advocate for massive immigration and then complain about poverty levels."

Obviously if the first part, i.e., "leftists advocate for massive immigration," is absurd, then even if the second part is true, i.e., "...[leftists] complain about poverty levels," the statement, as a whole, becomes non-sense. So of course I only needed to quote the absurd portion to show that the entire statement is nonsense.

IIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I am slowly being sucked into a jem black hole.................IIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
e
e
e
e
e
plop!!!

 

[UsualName]

piezoe...
1. you must cease taking quotes out of context...
here is my full quote...

"I explained that it is disgusting that leftists advocate for massive immigration and then complain about poverty levels."

By chopping my quote... you turned my statement into a straw man... which then allowed you to create a specious argument... which I will not address.

2. Now to your incredible piece of sophistry. You don't need to say the words "massive immigration" to support massive immigration.


arguing for the status quo is arguing for massive immigration. That is the result of our current policy.

We take in more immigrants than any other country in the world.
(about a million a year)
We have more immigrants here than any time in US history.
We have more immigrants as a percent of the population as anytime in the last 125 years.

(on top of that you ad in 10 to 30 million illegal immigrants.)

Nobody but a marxist would argue that is not massive immigration.


3. . Finally when you have many democrats arguing for no border checks and no ICE.
What the hell is that if it is not arguing for massive immigration.
In other polls around 30 percent of democrats say that illegal aliens should be allowed to stay.

I don’t know if your numbers are accurate but I suspect your problem isn’t immigration but where people are immigrating to the US from.

This country needs immigration. Our birth rates are low and our labor force isn’t what it needs to be. Without immigration at high levels this country will crumble.

We do one thing well, that’s the military but that takes money away from developing our people so we need to bring in other people. If we cut the military and focused on our people we would not need so much immigration.

 

[jem]

there are a bunch of non sequitors there. We don't necessarily crumble.

another possibility is that if our current citizens see an improving standard of living, I am sure birth rates would improve.


Why do we need immigration? lets just have a govt that works well with the people we have.

I have advocated capping spending and eliminating income taxes.
1. inflation will at some point bring us into balance.

but... one big factor is that:

2. if we cap spending congress will be forced start properly prioritizing spending.

3. The people would then have meaningful votes. Vote for politicians who want to spend on more military or more health care... etc. Right now the choices are bullshit because the politicians just spend more regardless.

I don’t know if your numbers are accurate but I suspect your problem isn’t immigration but where people are immigrating to the US from.

This country needs immigration. Our birth rates are low and our labor force isn’t what it needs to be. Without immigration at high levels this country will crumble.

We do one thing well, that’s the military but that takes money away from developing our people so we need to bring in other people. If we cut the military and focused on our people we would not need so much immigration.

 

[UsualName]

there are a bunch of non sequitors there. We don't necessarily crumble.

another possibility is that if our current citizens see an improving standard of living, I am sure birth rates would improve.


Why do we need immigration? lets just have a govt that works well with the people we have. I have advocated capping spending and eliminating taxes.
1. inflation we at some point bring us into balance.
2. if we capped spending congress would have to start properly prioritizing spending.
3. The people would then have meaningful decision. Vote for politicians who allocate for guns or butter. Right now the choices are bullshit because the politicians just spend more regardless.

We do crumble. Immigrants play a vital role in birth rate, educated workers, new business start ups, and tax payments.

The short of it is without immigration we cannot afford to care for the elderly. Now if you think we should not care for the elderly then that is a philosophical disagreement and no Mathematical equation is going to help.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Something that was on BBC recently was what goes back to Mexico in the gas tanks etc where the drugs were, guns. With massive corruption in the US among manufacturers and dealers, guns bleed to any buyers.

There is a feedback loop of a kind in effect here, Mexico is getting a lot more grief for having the US as a greedy vice fixated drug gobbling neighbor than vice versa.

In Colombia you can have excellent, like never seen in USA cocaine easily and with almost no risk. Except for a few university students using it for fun sexy times (5x strength orgasms for the old codgers who don't know), nobody touches it in my experience and I work a lot with the poor.