PointOne, I have no doubt that you can do what you said. But SCT isn't doing it. My bet is that you could do it without the channel OR the volume. You are unconsciously recognizing how fast the bar bottomed, how fast the tail formed, how long it is, etc. No small feat inside a murky turbid 5 minute bar. Sooooo much easieri n one minute. If you will try to quantify what you do, you will be the richer for it.
Beyond the hype of hershey futures method journal
- Thread starter RoughTrader
- Start date
Spyder,
I find the posts of the detractors quite amusing. Amusing in the fact that so many don't even take the time to pause and think about what they are writing before they post.
The simple truth is, it is HIGHLY unlikely that any individual would continue posting diligently, year after year, to simply "fool" people with a phantom method that simply doesn't offer the consistency and profitability it claims.
The hard-lined truth is that many of these people are simply NOT WILLING to do the work necessary to understand and evaluate the method. This means putting in the screen time, both off-line and real-time, to practice drawing channels and gaussians, and properly annotating the charts. This housekeeping is vital to collecting all necessary information in the "here and now" so that proper action may be taken to stay in sync with the market.
ET in general has a strong sense of entitlement. I suppose this is indicative of how America thinks in general. If the system doesn't work for me, then dammit, its the system creators' fault, not mine!
The reality is that burden of investigation lies on the shoulders of those attempting to learning the method. There is no burden of proof placed on the teachers. There is no need to pacify the detractors with audited records, cash PNL statements, etc. etc.
The plain truth is that you and Jack Hershey have and continue to demonstrate ENORMOUS generosity, not only in the level of detail of SCT you are willing to reveal, but also in your persistence and dedication to teaching the method itself.
As the days pass I am quickly "getting" the effectiveness of channels, and hope to start peeling off the first onion layer of beginner trading methods soon.
Enjoy your weekend,
RoughTrader
Do not confuse 'channels' with some of the criticisms of what is commonly referred to as 'detractors'.
Channels are can be an effective technical analysis tool, and TA articles have been written about channels in great detail long before Hershey. Much of what Hershey describes is basic technical analysis.
What draws most criticisms is some of his claims such as:
Drawing 3 * H-L in profits every day.
Not having loses.
Staying always in the market.
Turning $10000 into $15 million within a year.
His personal trading performance/claims.
His personal claims to trading success.
Although critical of Hershey I applaud your efforts and wish you the very best.
Good trading!
Why dont all the detractors try this....instead of worrying about any claims that sound outrageous on the surface such as 3X the daily range, no losses etc etc why dont you JUST focus on the idea that working through the method will allow you to see many good trading opportunities and consistently hit them? Obviously its easy to criticize someone who makes claims that sound outlandish, and I agree they do sound that way. HOWEVER, what is really at the heart of everything is the fact that the method, indeed, allows you to find yourself in a place where you can find profitable opportunities. And, from those opprotunities, with time and experience comes more and more opportunities. Everything builds on itself.
In order to even get to a point where 3X the daily range would ever even BE possible, you first must learn to see the mkt in such a way to trade profitably. Its like you guys want to know how to hit 50 homers year in and year out w/o knowing how to even swing a baseball bat. The only way to even attempt to get to such lofty figures is to learn to swing first!
In order to even get to a point where 3X the daily range would ever even BE possible, you first must learn to see the mkt in such a way to trade profitably. Its like you guys want to know how to hit 50 homers year in and year out w/o knowing how to even swing a baseball bat. The only way to even attempt to get to such lofty figures is to learn to swing first!
Trust me when I say this debate does not 'worry' me at all.
And as to the outlandish claims, if you separate the outlandish claims from what is the 'Hershey method' you will have some solid TA techniques and little innovation that have been written about again and again.
The fuel that drives the tens of thousands of posts and threads is the claims. Without the Hershey claims you would have just another thread on Channel trading... The method without the claims would be as successful as other channel techniques but little better (IMHO).
Thats all I am saying, its a solid way to see the market and the potential is there to make a lot of money if you work through it and put in the required effort. But dont think that its ONLY the outlandish claims that have everyone all fired up, plenty of times I hear Trader28 and some of the others post that anyone who tries and learn the method is a "sheep waiting to be slaughtered" or basically a complete boob for even thinking that the method offers potential. You, slacker, make a good point about the outlandish claims but not everyone appears to just care about that. They want to prove that Jack Hersheys method is pure crap from top to bottom. Some are so obsessed that they throw rational thought to the wind just to make it a point to attack every teeny tiny bit of info that Jack (and Spyder) have shared.
Personally, time is much better spent improving your own trading by WHATEVER means you have avaliable and whether its Jack Hershey's knowledge or Trader28's knowledge or whoever, is really not the point. I have never spoken to Jack one on one and it wouldnt matter to me if he was the absolute biggest prick in the entire world to talk to, if his info is good and he is kind enough to post it, I would be a complete moron not to check it out for myself.
Life is too damn short to argue every little detail to death. If you worked through a method and you dont see good results you move on, and if you do see good results you keep at it. If you have never ever tried to work through the material but still already made up your mind, then shame on you for jumping to conclusions w/o any effort on your part.
Personally, time is much better spent improving your own trading by WHATEVER means you have avaliable and whether its Jack Hershey's knowledge or Trader28's knowledge or whoever, is really not the point. I have never spoken to Jack one on one and it wouldnt matter to me if he was the absolute biggest prick in the entire world to talk to, if his info is good and he is kind enough to post it, I would be a complete moron not to check it out for myself.
Life is too damn short to argue every little detail to death. If you worked through a method and you dont see good results you move on, and if you do see good results you keep at it. If you have never ever tried to work through the material but still already made up your mind, then shame on you for jumping to conclusions w/o any effort on your part.
Steve, you are making the erroneous assumption that the B-Team doesn't know how to trade. I have corresponded with many of them over the years, and they do just fine.
Never have I made that assumption Mike, on the contrary, I have said several times that there are many ways to trade successfully. But I HAVE said time and again that just because there are many ways to trade well, doesnt mean that they are all equally successful. There is obviously a difference btw a method that makes you $200 a day vrs one that makes $2000 a day, for example. Both profitable of course, but the difference is clear.
Do I know for a fact that Jack Hershey method is the absolute be all end all of all methods that ever existed.... no..... because I havent seen every single method. But what I do know is that it works and I have to give myself a lot of credit for putting in all the hours of work and refinement that I have thus far for w/o that, everything does just appear to be a theory.
Do I know for a fact that Jack Hershey method is the absolute be all end all of all methods that ever existed.... no..... because I havent seen every single method. But what I do know is that it works and I have to give myself a lot of credit for putting in all the hours of work and refinement that I have thus far for w/o that, everything does just appear to be a theory.
Steve, I believe it was you who said that SCT gave you a framework from which to progress in your own direction. Very admirable. Jack did you a service. But I think of all the people here who appear to take SCT as gospel, as the most profitable way to trade (hasn't Jack as much as said so?), and consequently failed to personalize their trading as you have.
What do those guys do if SCT ever gains a sufficient following to impact the profitability of those who make the markets? It would be trivially easy to queer SCT, because a gross weakness is "no stop, always in". A few whipsaws at turning points (worse than the current customary retrace), and it would be all over for SCT.
IMO aspiring traders are better served to seek out and exploit those moves which MMs MUST make to achieve their profitability.
What do those guys do if SCT ever gains a sufficient following to impact the profitability of those who make the markets? It would be trivially easy to queer SCT, because a gross weakness is "no stop, always in". A few whipsaws at turning points (worse than the current customary retrace), and it would be all over for SCT.
IMO aspiring traders are better served to seek out and exploit those moves which MMs MUST make to achieve their profitability.
Honestly, getting to the point where you can almost unconsciously trade purely based on sports type memory and very successfully is so difficult that the great majority of people will give up way before that. Only those of us who are so steadfast and persistent (and patient) will ever possibly reach that level. Its the same thing in almost every field that is competitive. Studies have shown that more than anything else (intelligence, natural ability) that the number 1 common charaterictic of those that succeed in all walks of life is pure unadulterated passion and persistence. I am by no means a "natural" in trading, I have had to work my butt off to overcome my shortcomings. I do have some natural traits that are very helpful; great memory, pattern recognition skills, fast reflexes but nothing more helpful than being totally dedicated to success in a field I truly enjoy.
Am I worried that too many people will be able to reach that pinnacle of trading and therefore disrupt the mkts....no way. Most dont come into trading with any other agenda than to make a lot of money. Few of us find that we absolutely love this game more than doing almost anything else. The rest see just how hard it is to make it in this game and they seek out other means to satisfy their need for wealth. Luckily, there are many other avenues for people to pursue.
Hey, I cant speak for everyone who works through the Hershey method or any other method, I am just giving you my take on things. I know what works for me and what doesnt. And I have found that reading and working through Spyders journal has been truly a gift. Its allowed me to see what I need to see to find opportunities. Do I think its the only way to make money, of course not. But I do think the info in that journal and Spy's teachings are excellent and very consistent to what I am experiencing on a daily basis.
Am I worried that too many people will be able to reach that pinnacle of trading and therefore disrupt the mkts....no way. Most dont come into trading with any other agenda than to make a lot of money. Few of us find that we absolutely love this game more than doing almost anything else. The rest see just how hard it is to make it in this game and they seek out other means to satisfy their need for wealth. Luckily, there are many other avenues for people to pursue.
Hey, I cant speak for everyone who works through the Hershey method or any other method, I am just giving you my take on things. I know what works for me and what doesnt. And I have found that reading and working through Spyders journal has been truly a gift. Its allowed me to see what I need to see to find opportunities. Do I think its the only way to make money, of course not. But I do think the info in that journal and Spy's teachings are excellent and very consistent to what I am experiencing on a daily basis.