Better off as a plumber?

[1prometheus]

Quote from sle:

Well, realistically, the house used to cost a 100k, but NYC was,erm, not as desirable at the time. I know someone who bought a nice Bleeker street loft for something like 25k, but she had to live there for 30 years to actually see the neighborhood improve. Guess what - you can buy a brownstone in the Bronx these days for a few hundred thousand, but would you want to live there?

Personally, I think its about 1:5 ratio of what a million dollars was then to now.

That is a good point that has some merit, yet I am referring to relative prices in a specific neighborhood. Beacon Hill has been where the Boston elite have lived for hundreds of years.

Perhaps in NYC is would be "what did a nice home cost in a nice part of the upper east side 35-40 years ago relative to today". Rather than what did home cost in a now gentrified former ghetto area.

EDIT: I just realized I got jumbled up in both this reply and in the post sle is responding too. In that first post I said back bay, in the second I said beacon hill. Beacon hill is what I meant to say in both posts.

And by the way, and this has huge irony relative to this topic... The guy who told me about his beacon hill purchase in the 70's was a PLUMBER!

 

[sle]

Quote from 1prometheus:
The guy who told me about his beacon hill purchase in the 70's was a PLUMBER!

My cycling partner and I have a running joke where he presents himself as a master plumber and I say that I am a book keeper... He is a urologist and i, well, i am running a book

I just asked my buddy how much he paid for his Park Avenue apartment in 1976 - he said about 1.5 million dollars. I would reckon now it costs about 8-10 million. At the peak it was probably worth 12 bucks.

 

[marketsurfer]

Thanks prometheus

Excellent point.

Quote from 1prometheus:

Very well said Surf.

I think the "Millionaire next door" is misleading because it cashes in on the "Millionaire" cache long after being a low level millionaire means you are rich or wealthy (take your choice.

I do not think most small businessmen and miserly middle class people (after a lifetime of skimping) used to be considered rich.

What changed?

Well, misers were richly rewarded by the big bull run from 1980 to 2000, so that did give them a boost beyond what was expected. More importantly, "Millionaire" still has psychological meaning that no longer matches the purchasing power.

How much did a nyc townhouse cost in the 70's? I have no idea, but I do know a guy who bought a back bay mansion in the early 70's for less than 100k.

Yea, If u can buy such a home for 100k, then 3-5m Is real money. If that home alone today costs 3-5m.. well, It is just not the same.

It is psychological: People are fixated on the nice round number 1,000,000 for being wealthy, just like 100,000 = "the good life" in peoples minds for the past 25 years, in spite of the massively eroded purchasing power.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from luisHK:

On a side note, seen for outside it's amazing to look at the US in the sense where the cost of living seems quite a bit cheaper than in other countries enjoying a significantly lower average income.

Buffet house in Omaha looks quite big for 640k, and in Paris, London, or HK, with which I'm more familiar, 4million will get you a posh apartment but nothing even close to a multibillionaire dream house. I definetely have a hard time understanding how people with median salaries can make ends meet in London or Paris.

Interesting Luis. As an American citizen I understand but have not experienced what you are saying. In USA 4 million can buy a decent estate mansion in many areas.

I do know hong kongers are huge collectors of very expensive watches and vertu telephones----From my experience selling a few on eBay several years ago.

 

[ElCubano]

Plumber just came by...$65 labor $20 materials...for 25 minutes tops...

I should/could have done it myself and saved the labor cost.

 

[the1]

http://www.amazon.com/Stumbling-Happiness-Daniel-Gilbert/dp/1400042666/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

Quote from marketsurfer:

Nothing wrong with it, but nothing wrong with huge goals and living well also.

I find those who hoard money and don't enjoy it's fruits sad. Particularly when they die before tasting the worlds pleasures that they could have afforded easily

Best. Surf

 

[luisHK]

Quote from marketsurfer:

Interesting Luis. As an American citizen I understand but have not experienced what you are saying. In USA 4 million can buy a decent estate mansion in many areas.

I do know hong kongers are huge collectors of very expensive watches and vertu telephones----From my experience selling a few on eBay several years ago.

To be fair we should probably compare real estate prices in London, HK and Paris with New york, rather than secondary US cities. But when I hear of high end house prices even in LA they sound like a bargain. Florida seems ridiculously low since the crisis. You can't expect any even mid size high end mansion for 4mil usd in areas where real estate will be 15000usd/sqm and over (starting at 10k EUROS/sqm in Paris downtown good locations and a little more in London, as well probably in HK although the real estate prices there are fluctuating widely) . Considering the higher real estate prices and the lower per capita in UK and France than in the US, it gives one an idea why life is not easy for average income families in the former countries - although social welfare in Europe might help balancing things with the US.

As of HK consumers, they do have a serious taste for the fine and luxury products - watches, cars, cigars etc...HK a very good place for entrepreneurs, extremely pro business government and (very) low taxes , good mix of east and West, but downtown feels very cramped .

 

[marketsurfer]

Thanks Luis. I hope to visit hong kong soon. I think I will like it

 

[gmst]

Quote from 1prometheus:

nitro, i recommend the book "real education" by Charles Murray.

He makes a convincing case that One of the great disservices done to young people is the overemphasis put on the Bachelor's degree.

We have noted that you are an intelligent individual. In fact (in spite of the frequent attitude problems) I would guess most people here are substantially above average, most likely with few people not in the top 10% or 15%.

Murray makes the point that most above average people have spent most of their lives secluded from genuinely average people, and to an even much greater degree, below average people.

There are allot of people out there who in terms of raw ability struggle with basic arithmetic. Many, even most people have never read a work of literature (or simply sophisticated reading of any kind, never mind the technical and scientific texts many geeky traders seem to enjoy) on their own free will.

What we have today is an economy where some skill sets are irrationally favored over others, because the people with those skills are inordinately good at manipulating the system to their advantage. (Law is the perfect example, banking/finance is another, as is the Education industrial/government complex itself).

Education: The system has grown to seek its own ends rather than that of its customers, and government sponsored debt has made it possible.

nice thread and interesting post. Makes some good points. Like a lot of things we take for granted - for a lot of people, they are extremely unnatural. People are different and probably its not best to look at everyone with one eye or using a narrow perspective. Whether an investment banker or a plumber, everyone has different skill-set and everyone should get respect for a good job they can do.

 

[BlueTurtle]

Funny how a Professor says be a plumber.....can't take that seriously, since he already went to school forever.

I have graduate degree. whatever.

school makes you feel privileged to spend time thinking about life; instead of doing some "poor" job. I have no time to waste my life doing worthless job, instead I will contemplate Plato.

If I hang out with poor people, I will wonder if my odds of being "great" will weaken. So I must not talk with them, but talk at them. Be the great leader, the next king.

So please send me a few hundred a week and I will continue to think about deep religious, philosophical, and economical problems in the universe. While you deal with your boss and worry over stuff like money. I am above such worthless things.