Barra.. tin foil hat...
- Thread starter VicBee
- Start date
American car companies suck big time. Every US car my parents bought was junk. From the Dodge Dart, to GM Vega, Pontiac J2000, Ford Escort and the worst car my mom drove the Ford Granada -- an incredible POS where the engine blew up 9 months after my mom bought it.
GM, Ford and Chrysler are evidence of national industries that should have died years ago.
GM, Ford and Chrysler are evidence of national industries that should have died years ago.
Agreed. Yet, Ford makes excellent cars in Europe, like the Fiesta and the Escort, both of which come in basic or sup'd up format
Apologies I don't know how to reduce size when importing...
I used a simple (but very long-winded) way.
PRINT SCREEN
PASTE it on PAINT
ZOOM OUT
PRINT SCREEN
PASTE it on PAINT
CUT
PASTE on ET
Attachments
Another demonstration of GMs incompetence:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-is-ordering-a-massive-overhaul-with-its-ev-batteries-report
GM Is Ordering a Massive Overhaul With Its EV Batteries: Report
GM once touted the packaging and cost savings of pouch cells in its Ultium platform, but that may soon change.
BY ROB STUMPF
PUBLISHED FEB 2, 2023 7:00 PM
Despite only two currently released U.S.-market vehicles being built on General Motors' all-new Ultium platform, the automaker may soon order a huge engineering overhaul to switch from pouch cells to cylindrical cells in the batteries built for its electric cars.
News of the switch comes from the Korean EV publication, The Elec, which claims to have sources with knowledge of the engineering change. In fact, these same sources have pointed the finger at the switch to cylindrical cells as the cause behind the recently announced shelving of GM's fourth battery plant with LG.
GM's pouch cells (left) versus Tesla's cylindrical cells (right)
Presently, Ultium uses pouch-style cells that "waste less space [than cylindrical cells] and can stack on top of each other like pancakes or vertically like slices of toast," rather than be positioned side-by-side with wasted space surrounding each cylinder. The automaker has justified its use of pouch cells thanks to it allowing for flexible packaging and high energy density, though it also quietly benefited from low manufacturing costs as well. However, with the promise of faster-charging, more energy-dense cylindrical cells on the horizon, other automakers like BMW are scrambling to ready their own future platforms to accept battery form factors similar to Tesla's updated 4680 cells.
Automakers are reportedly switching to the new 4680 form factor thanks to an increase in overall pack density. With the increase in size comes less wasted space, according to The Elec, meaning automakers can pack even more energy storage into a pack than it previously could with cylindrical cells. Plus, with the 46-millimeter-wide cell being available in both 40 mm and 60 mm, OEMs could potentially lower the vehicle's floor line depending on how it packages each respective configuration.
"The Ultium Platform was designed to be flexible, accommodating a range of cell form factors and battery chemistries," said a GM spokesperson in a statement to The Drive, declining to comment on speculation.
One of the biggest advantages to the pouch cell during Ultium's inception, according to the head of General Motors' global battery cell and electrification strategy, Tim Grewe, was its cost savings. But that doesn't mean that it's the only consideration when packaging a battery cell.
"When you put the stack electrode in a can or a pouch, or this or that, truly the pouch has some very clear cost advantages to it," said Grewe during an interview with The Drive last year. "But everything will coexist in the industry. It has a lot to do with your vehicles and your portfolio, and how you get integrated into the vehicle as well."
Grewe also made it a point to address modularity and serviceability when speaking with The Drive previously. He noted that it was important that current Ultium pack modules remain serviceable should a failure occur. It's likely that GM will follow this methodology if it chooses to move forward with cylindrical cells, similar to how other automakers build out their respective packs, though it's not clear how energy density or module cost could be affected by this change.
© 2022 Recurrent Ventures. All Rights Reserved.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-is-ordering-a-massive-overhaul-with-its-ev-batteries-report
GM Is Ordering a Massive Overhaul With Its EV Batteries: Report
GM once touted the packaging and cost savings of pouch cells in its Ultium platform, but that may soon change.
BY ROB STUMPF
PUBLISHED FEB 2, 2023 7:00 PM
Despite only two currently released U.S.-market vehicles being built on General Motors' all-new Ultium platform, the automaker may soon order a huge engineering overhaul to switch from pouch cells to cylindrical cells in the batteries built for its electric cars.
News of the switch comes from the Korean EV publication, The Elec, which claims to have sources with knowledge of the engineering change. In fact, these same sources have pointed the finger at the switch to cylindrical cells as the cause behind the recently announced shelving of GM's fourth battery plant with LG.
GM's pouch cells (left) versus Tesla's cylindrical cells (right)
Presently, Ultium uses pouch-style cells that "waste less space [than cylindrical cells] and can stack on top of each other like pancakes or vertically like slices of toast," rather than be positioned side-by-side with wasted space surrounding each cylinder. The automaker has justified its use of pouch cells thanks to it allowing for flexible packaging and high energy density, though it also quietly benefited from low manufacturing costs as well. However, with the promise of faster-charging, more energy-dense cylindrical cells on the horizon, other automakers like BMW are scrambling to ready their own future platforms to accept battery form factors similar to Tesla's updated 4680 cells.
Automakers are reportedly switching to the new 4680 form factor thanks to an increase in overall pack density. With the increase in size comes less wasted space, according to The Elec, meaning automakers can pack even more energy storage into a pack than it previously could with cylindrical cells. Plus, with the 46-millimeter-wide cell being available in both 40 mm and 60 mm, OEMs could potentially lower the vehicle's floor line depending on how it packages each respective configuration.
"The Ultium Platform was designed to be flexible, accommodating a range of cell form factors and battery chemistries," said a GM spokesperson in a statement to The Drive, declining to comment on speculation.
One of the biggest advantages to the pouch cell during Ultium's inception, according to the head of General Motors' global battery cell and electrification strategy, Tim Grewe, was its cost savings. But that doesn't mean that it's the only consideration when packaging a battery cell.
"When you put the stack electrode in a can or a pouch, or this or that, truly the pouch has some very clear cost advantages to it," said Grewe during an interview with The Drive last year. "But everything will coexist in the industry. It has a lot to do with your vehicles and your portfolio, and how you get integrated into the vehicle as well."
Grewe also made it a point to address modularity and serviceability when speaking with The Drive previously. He noted that it was important that current Ultium pack modules remain serviceable should a failure occur. It's likely that GM will follow this methodology if it chooses to move forward with cylindrical cells, similar to how other automakers build out their respective packs, though it's not clear how energy density or module cost could be affected by this change.
© 2022 Recurrent Ventures. All Rights Reserved.
speculation aside "it is likely GM will follow"; "may soon order", how is this proof of incompetence exactly? A new supplier can offer a cell w/a higher energy density in a different form factor than current lineup, so how is it incompetent to switch to a less volumetric/heftier pack? If/when said or different supplier offers a higher density in pouch form and GM chooses to switch again, how would it be incompetence to offer customers more range w/less volume?
https://newatlas.com/energy/amprius-450-wh-kg-battery/
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GM is a rather big corporation, with many engineers and even more hierarchy. You'd think they would have spent time evaluating the industry's leader to determine the best way forward in they're monumental shift to an EV platform. Let's remember that GM has been sitting on EV technology since 1996 and had plenty of time to think things through. But no.
They announced with great fanfare in 2020 their Ultium platform, the one that would revolutionize EV and lead the industry. Forget Tesla and their cylindrical batteries; We'll do pouch! Less than 3 years later, they're dumping pouch for cylindrical.. I call that incompetence, but you can call it whatever you want.
I'll call it non-issue. As far as I can tell Ultium platform is a skateboard w/battery packs agnostic of cell makeup so I see no problem w/them going cylindrical, pouch or prismatic. As I work in the field, there are a million different reasons one would make such switch from the mundane (cost, supply chain issues, new management) to the technical (higher e density, packaging, performance properties, durability) to the political (ethical sourcing, geopolitics w/China or elsewhere). Believe me, following Elon's cell of choice and goofy "structural" logic was not among those reasons. If I were a guessing man, it'd be the consumer electronics market share (power tools) making cylindrical cost effective due to economies of scale. Yes I know cell phones and laptops have moved on to other geometries.
