Baron - Is Nazism a fun joke for you and ET?

Quote from man:

you will dismiss whatever i bring up. you will discredit
all sources and claim a global conspiracy and cover up
by almost all academics, victims, military personnel and
so forth.

you say the red cross could not be fooled. well i would
see there is evidence it was. we can now go back and
forth, but this will just cost me time i am not willing to
invest. you will not convert, there is not the slightest
thing i can do about that. and since i am aware of that
it is enough for me to show people that your point of
view is known and answered. you dismiss these sources?
go ahead, no big deal. those who read this will judge on
their own.

The Red Cross was in the camps for the entirety of the war interviewing thousands of people. Show me exactly why my last post, which you didn't seem to have read, was incorrect, and we will see. 6,000,000 people being gassed does not go unnoticed.

I did not dismiss the sources, I debunked them.
 
Quote from arealpissedgoy:

As the old adage goes, " The wheel that squeaks the loudest, gets the most grease".

On ET a handful of Zionists have successfully managed to translate that old adage into censorship and deletion of posts that only they themselves seem to deem "offensive".
you might have missed the little point that it was the
revisionists that started a quite "loud" campaign. and
i am far from being a Zionist.

but if you are so fond of that kind of conversation you
can have with these people, why don't you go and get
it? as it seems this board is not the right place for what
you call "freedom of speech". go to a revisionism board,
they will gladly be happy to share their version of freedom.
 
Quote from Sirtatocar:

I did not dismiss the sources, I debunked them..
right, right. i must have missed that. ah and yes, the
red cross could not get fooled by the Nazis because of
the geneva accord. sure. do you really want me now to
quote people and then you quote people and on and on?
please, don't waste your time with me on that.
 
Quote from man:


red cross could not get fooled by the Nazis because of
the geneva accord. sure. do you really
More proof that you didn't read my post. The crux of the post focussed on the fact that Nizkor quotes people who are known to have lied in the past, which doesn't make the rest less significant, of course.

So much for a German who claims to have knowledge on the subject.

Quote from Sirtatocar:

When they can't refute something, they must turn to the lie. Obviously, if the Red Cross was forbidden any part of the camps, they would have mentioned that in their official reports when they reported in effect that they found no evidence of mass killings. In fact, Red Cross officials were not forbidden to go anywhere in the camps, no matter what coerced testimony from Germans after the war might be alleged. It is obvious that the Red Cross would have said, " We were told that there were mass killings there, but the Nazis would not let us inspect these areas." But the official reports show none of this, not even a whiff of this. Numerous International Red Cross inspection teams were completely satisfied that no exterminations were occurring as evidenced by their official records of their visits.


The basis of the Nizkor line of argument is completely flawed of course.

The International Red Cross could go anywhere they wanted, it was part of the Geneva accords, that's why they were allowed in the first place. No part of the camp was forbidden to them. Furthermore, if the Nizkor report is correct in saying that Jewish prisoners and Auschwitz told them about the gas chambers, why wouldn't the Red Cross ask to go and look at the these alleged places of extermination. there is nothing in the Red Cross report that says the Nazis would not let inspect parts of the camp, which if that would have been the case, of course they would have mentioned it in response to the inquiries of the U.S. government. Instead, they wrote that they investigated the matter and found no evidence of any exterminating facilities.

In fact, of course, the Red Cross distributed over a million packages to prisoners and interviewed thousands. You can't keep the killing of thousands of people a day secret in any prison or facility, especially in Concentration camps where people can move about far more freely than in a cell-block kind of prison. If the gassing were truly going on, prisoners would have told them about it and the Red Cross would have investigated and asked to see parts of the camp where the allegations centered.

In fact, there was no widespread belief among the prisoners that gassing were occurring. Even Elie Wiesel in his famous autobiography of his long stay at Auschwitz makes not one reference to gas chambers, which is now the one central symbol of the Holocaust Story. In fact, there were a number of competing stories about Nazi extermination, from electrical floors to death by steaming, to diesel engine gassing, all which cannot stand the text of time or any forensic analysis.


The overriding point is simply this.

The Red Cross did inspect the alleged death camps, including Auschwitz.

The Red Cross made the repeated inspections during the height of the alleged Holocaust.

The Red Cross could go anywhere they wanted in the camps.

The Red Cross specifically investigated the mass extermination rumors.

The Red Cross did interview thousands of prisoners.

The Red Cross in a formal letter to the U.S. Government in November 1944 in response to the earlier request to investigate the extermination allegations, said it found no evidence of any mass killings of Jews or anyone else.

In addition, what does common sense tell us.

If the Germans had an enormous, super-secret, mass extermination apparatus and program of killing millions of Jews in Auschwitz and the other concentration camps would they let the Red Cross in at all, or keep them out of the camps just like the Soviets did and the allies did at the end of World War II?

The fact of the matter is simple and undeniable.

There was a non-German, anti-Nazi international body that went inside the Nazi Concentration camps during the height of the alleged Holocaust. It included Americans, British, French, Swiss and many foreign nationals. They investigated found nothing of the Holocaust as alleged and formally reported that the allied governments.

No matter what sophistry the good historians use, this startling fact cannot be ignored or explained away.


But.... This is far from everything that's to it. Nizkor quotes proven liars as trustworthy witnesses.

Nizkor quotes Dr. Hans Münch as a trustworthy withness:


Hans Münch stated in The Auschwitz Declaration dated January 27, 1995:

- Utterly impossible, contradicts the laws of physics and chemistry and is a pure invention. This man is just quoting worn out literary precedents.

Muench declared:

- Problem, the official story says there were no death documents for those allegedly "gassed".
Remember, this is a guy who claims to have taken part in 'gassings', but was curiously acquitted.

Muench is not an uninterested party with no stakes in the matter. He underwent trial in 1946-47 in Communist Krakow, Poland and whatever he said about his direct experience with the "Auschwitz gas chamber" back then compromises him today. Therefore his reason for re-stating an outdated version of the gas chambers story would simply be an attempt at coherent behaviour on his part, the desire not to be seen as a liar, which he failed to accomplish.



I, as an amateur historian, am just asking for the convincing refutation of two (2) arguments. That shouldn't be a problem for Holocaust historians, should it?

1) Wiesel's extreme exaggerations present in his book (See my previous post).

2) The fact that The Red Cross couldn't find any gas chambers.

If anyone can refute these, I will stop doubting the Holocaust...
 
you don't get it, don't you? you say you are an amateur
and so am i in this respect. it is waste of my time to go
out now and discuss each detail with you, all the evidence
and back and forth. others have done that and whenever
you come with your exciting considerations i simply go
out and check what the arguments are. then i quote
them and you come dismiss them by stating who is
not credible for whatever thing he said decades later.
that is the game you guys keep on playing, but it is
a perpetuum mobile and the end is quite obvious: waste
of time. and i had that last weekend with your friend
the publisher and i am not willing to do it again.

and now please stop whining that i don't want to wrestle
with you in the revisonist dust. let us stop this here.
thnx.
 
I suggest you make the "support button" comment in the feedback section. It really is not a bad idea...

Quote from arealpissedgoy:

As the old adage goes, " The wheel that squeaks the loudest, gets the most grease".

On ET a handful of Zionists have successfully managed to translate that old adage into censorship and deletion of posts that only they themselves seem to deem "offensive".

There should be "support" buttons along with the "complain" button below each post. That way the quiet middle who make up most of ET would be able to "voice" their support for posts they'd like to stay around.
 
Quote from Sirtatocar:

More proof that you didn't read my post. The crux of the post focussed on the fact that Nizkor quotes people who are known to have lied in the past, which doesn't make the rest less significant, of course.

So much for a German who claims to have knowledge on the subject.

"Archive/File: camps/auschwitz/staff muench-testimony
Last-Modified: 1994/07/14

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
[Trials of War Criminals, Vol. VIII. p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
time, because the facts that were being described seemed too
terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated,
I was very much shaken emotionally."

now you refute it and then we start another round?
please let us stop this here, will you?
 
Quote from man:


......i am far from being a Zionist.



Yes we know. Just like your little friend Tradernik isn't jewish but extolls his supposed superioty as a jew.


Quote from man:


..........as it seems this board is not the right place for what you call "freedom of speech".


Well it's you and only 3 other members out of 70,000 members who seem to have a problem with the posts in question.

The rest of us know the Holohoax was just that. It's too bad Baron decided to travel the same path as our politicians who cower and cajole the squeakiest wheel
of our society.

As I posted earlier, there should be "support" buttons at the bottom along with the "complain" button. That way the moderators will know that there are many who would like to read dissenting views to the standard holohoax propaganda we've been fed since we were children.

Based on your extreme zealous pursuit of the Holohoax debunkers, I suggest you worry about banning the entire internet rather than a few posters here on ET. The truth is coming out slowly, and you'll eventually have to ban the entire internet if you want it your way. I've had my say on this thread, a good day to you. [/B][/QUOTE]
 
I've always wondered what happened to the civilian casuallties resulting from the mass air bombings on the cities of Germany. My cousin's family lived in Nurnberg which was bombed to rubble, as was every major city. Perhaps you could tell us how you can I.D. the ethnicty of those corpses.
The pictures of the starving prisoners should not be so shocking. Everyone on the Axis side was starving in the last days of the war, even the German soldiers. I'm sure the residents of the work camps were low on the pecking order of the food rations. As far as the ovens, what better way to get rid of many of the dead bodies resulting from a full blown war. To those who claim that only Jews were victems, I say you're a selfish egotistical and ignorant S.O.B.
Again I'm not saying many of our Jewish brothers weren't targeted .It's just that wasnt even near 6 million Jews for the Nazi's to get the black leather gloves on.

Rennick Goldstein out
 
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