Quote from seneca_roman:
An interesting item for those of faith:
Hitler when he was a youngster was saved from drowning by a priest. It happened in Passau and the priest's name was Johann Kurberger.
Was this a message from God?
Seneca
The context is your question for evidence.Quote from jem:
"for the record -- I have to ask the question where do you get the believe me without evidence or burn rhetoric from Jesus?
If you say jesus said it, you should be quoting him from the bible or maybe even one of the gnostic gospels. "
Stu are you bitter?.
First of all if you put this in context you see this judgement comes after the second coming. When you will have a chance to see him arrive for yourself, after the destruction of the middle east.
if you choose to deny him after he comes back...
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Quote from vhehn:
actually it was. many christians believe in predetermination. that means god has mapped out our lives before we are born and every act we commit god has planned. if that is the case then judas should be a hero instead of being scorned and hitler was only fulfilling his destiny.
even some of the most closed minded theists are uncomfortable with these facts but it is the only logical conclusion.
Quote from seneca_roman:
So, you like a God that saved a man who would as an adult be responsible for the death of almost 100 million people.
Alternates you chose not to mention: The God as portrayed by Jesus would do no such thing and therefore Christianity's God is false, or there is no God or that God is the God of Creation and once done with that doesn't give a damn what happens.
As you mentioned predestination, interesting, as that is more a Buddhist belief; so maybe that proves their God is the true God.
Seneca
Quote from vhehn:
hitler was raised a christian and claimed to be doing gods will when he murdered the jews.
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.
never lost my belief, in the midst of setbacks which were not spared me during my period of struggle. Providence has had the last word and brought me success.
-Adolf Hitler
I really do not wish to wasted time having this debate, there are quotes from hitler that conflict with these statements. And we all know what politiicans say and what they think may be polar opposites so we really do not know.
As Fuehrer of the German people and Chancellor of the Reich, I can thank God at this moment that he has so wonderfully blessed us in our hard struggle for what is our right, and beg Him that we and all other nations may find the right way, so that not only the German people but all Europe may once more be granted the blessing of peace.
-Adolf Hitler
Quote from stu:
The context is your question for evidence.
The "burn rhetoric" evidence you asked for is from Jesus in Matthew. The jesus character in the story is telling his disciples parables about this and that, including a tale on how the 'son of man' will send folk to everlasting hell fire. That is the "burn rhetoric".
The "ironic rhetoric", would be your own question.. "Stu are you bitter?"
You've got an account about a certain personality which is said to present itself as a forgiving and loving celebrity, but which actually describes its own tendencies and instincts in terms of a megalomaniac mass genocidal killer , torturer and terrorist. This character wants to separate all those whom it likes and those whom it does not like into two groups so it can dispose of them.
To top things off, you infer endorsement of all that with implied threats of your own. The destruction of the middle east, which presumably you consider to be God's or Jesus's intention, along with the inference that I must choose to accept the terms and ideas of these mass murderous exterminators, or go to the 'burn place'.
And you ask if it is I who is bitter !!? A more appropriate question might be what sort of bitter and twisted men write bibles in the first place, let alone subscribe to their acrimonious nature, by repeating in veiled threats what they glean from the text.
Quote from jem:
Regarding predistination. Very few christians I know still profess such a belief.
It also makes no sense to even argue about once you realize that at the time Calvin was arguing for predistination science was clueless about the concept of time.
Once you realize that it is possible God exists outside of the time the whole debate about predestination and freewill are rendered moot.
JEM you do not consider the destruction of the middle east to be God's or Jesus's intention? . Could you explain yourself any better then? .....Quote from jem:
" First of all if you put this in context you see this judgement comes after the second coming. When you will have a chance to see him arrive for yourself, after the destruction of the middle east.
"
STU you are the absolute worst at guessing what I believe.
I believe nothing of the sort about the middle east.
..or else what? The whole message is a threat. Jesus says in Matthew do it this way or you burn. You have the evidence you asked for.Quote from jem:
And you miss the whole point of jesus message in the bible. he gives you a chance to avoid what you and I and everyone else deserves
The mistake I think you are making is you are equating a good person as someone who responds to avoiding something called hell, only by agreeing with jesus character, who in the bible story is actually in the end, a torturer, who tries to hide that fact behind a pretence of goodness and light.Quote from jem:
Regarding the burn rhetoric. I thought the point was that good people will burn for no reason. i still would like you to point that out to me
Quote from vhehn:
wrong again jem. one of the best selling christian books ever professed just this.The Purpose Driven Life, has sold 25 million copies and is the best-selling hardback book in American history
A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren,
"Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death."