attack religion without fear

[jem]

Quote from seneca_roman:

Any evidence not from the Bible that supports the biblical account?

BTW-thought that Elohim is plural and is used as a plural in Genesis indicating multiple gods.

Actually, I have read from credible sources that the best definiton for Elohim means a compound unity. (Because it is used in the bible in other places as a compound unity). As in when a branch is grafted into a tree.

It pretty much forshadows the trinity in the beginning of Genesis and in the famous "hear or israel the lord they god is one. "

 

[Option Trader]

Quote from seneca_roman:

Any evidence not from the Bible that supports the biblical account?

BTW-thought that Elohim is plural and is used as a plural in Genesis indicating multiple gods.

1. Of the actual happenings of the 10 plagues and the splitting of the Red Sea, I mentioned non-Biblical evidence. If you are asking for evidence that Egypt was not controlling the Sinai at the time perhaps Josephus could help you, I don't know.

2. The bible speaks monotheism. God has many attributes, which is why Elo(k)him is said in plural. Example: "merciful" for the repenting, "strict judgment" for the nonrepenting, "jealousy" against idol worship, "long winded" which explains why most of us are here today, etc.

 

[Option Trader]

Quote from vhehn:

i have a similar view. if god exists and i stand before him some day i will ask him why he refused to provide evidence to man that he existed. i will explain that i would have believed had he provided evidence.

If God did anymore, there would be no free will; we would all be like angels or animals, and there would be no reward and punishment.

Quote from vhehn: if he cant show compassion and still wants to burn me after i explain the circumstances he isn't worthy of worship.

God does not have to give reckoning to you, you have to give reckoning to God.


1. I could have handled more in this thread and clarified points more, but in the end of the day, those who are open to believing will or will at least reckon with it, and those who don't want to believe won't (and in some cases will, so long as they can find some other excuses to do whatever they want).

2. Those who use abuses in religion as an excuse to not believe in God, join the ranks of others who have other excuses why they don't believe. My belief is that someone who doesn't want to believe could stare miracles in the eye and not believe.

I have made my contributions to this thread, and I'm signing out now.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Option Trader:

If God did anymore, there would be no free will; we would all be like angels or animals, and there would be no reward and punishment.

so we are back to the crux of christianity. believe me without evidence or burn. it is hard to scare educated people in the 21st century with fairy tale threats of a burning pit in the earth.

 

[tradermaji]

Quote from Option Trader:

I'm signing out now

Thank God

 

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Option Trader:

1. Of the actual happenings of the 10 plagues and the splitting of the Red Sea, I mentioned non-Biblical evidence. If you are asking for evidence that Egypt was not controlling the Sinai at the time perhaps Josephus could help you, I don't know.

2. The bible speaks monotheism. God has many attributes, which is why Elo(k)him is said in plural. Example: "merciful" for the repenting, "strict judgment" for the nonrepenting, "jealousy" against idol worship, "long winded" which explains why most of us are here today, etc.

If Elohim is uses as you say, why does Gen say:

1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image"

us seems to indicate more than one god.

Seneca

for those who enjoy games, I've attached a copy of Fundy Bingo where you can keep track of the various debating strategems used.

 

[jem]

you got it. elohim is a plural. Although jews argue it can be also used as a majestic plural. Like a king saying we. Of course that does not exlclud the Christian argument.

And if you were to read the following I think you might be impressed with the research.

here is an article where they discuss a rabbi's response to the christian argument that Elohim means compound unity.

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/1_8/jewish

as I reread the article. elohim is a pluaral and echad is the word that is frequently a compound unity.

And yes both can be used as a singular or pluaral and you have to analyze the uses. That is why the above article is very interesting.

 

[john dough]

Quote from vhehn:

so we are back to the crux of christianity. believe me without evidence or burn. it is hard to scare educated people in the 21st century with fairy tale threats of a burning pit in the earth.

The flaw is the same for every religion. The theist wants to believe, so he puts forward earthly evidence of his belief to prove his religion correct, even though the God of his religion would suffer no earthly evidence to limit His almighty power.

If God exists, then He certainly has the authority to judge us all. But, if we are made in His image, then we can reasonably expect that God will be at least as rationale as we are -- which means that a person who lives a reasonable and rationale life has nothing to fear from God's judgment -- whereas the religious zealot who believes but behaves badly throughout his life, likely has quite a bit to fear from a rational God.

 

[jem]

for the record -- I have to ask the question where do you get the believe me without evidence or burn rhetoric from Jesus?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:

for the record -- I have to ask the question where do you get the believe me without evidence or burn rhetoric from Jesus?

point 1. most christians believe in a place called hell where unbelievers will be tortured by burning for eternity for their unbelief.

point 2. since there is no evidence outside the bible that jesue even existed let alone was devine(although most skeptics will concede that a jewish man named jesus probably once lived and was killed by the romans)it would in effect be "believe me without evidence or burn".