are we in a recession?

[Swan Noir]

There is no question of sincerity here. There is no sincerity. While de Tocqueville was a great admirer of American democracy he saw the fundamental flaw.


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

Alexis de Tocqueville

Quote from toc:

Who care if recession ended in 2009 or later. The point is, whoever takes the White House, gets going with one minded agenda to stall and start to reduce the debt pile up on the US balance sheets. Hard pills will have to be taken and fancy words like jobs creation, growth and military supremacy will have to be sidelined for a while.

The main question is that of the sincerity here, a real desire to improve one problem that is the root cause of all the financial sheet mess.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Swan Noir:

There is no question of sincerity here. There is no sincerity. While de Tocqueville was a great admirer of American democracy he saw the fundamental flaw.


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

Alexis de Tocqueville

so what is better? A wise benevolent dictator? A good king?

or maybe just another violent revolution and start the whole thing back up again?

Obviously, you are smart, and I aint that dumb, why are we doomed to bribery and corruption? Are we that weak that we just can't resist?

If I am given a choice will I always vote for what benefits me, even if it harms you and everyone else?

 

[Swan Noir]

Yes.

Quote from oldtime:

Are we that weak that we just can't resist?

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Swan Noir:

Yes.

Quote from oldtime:

Are we that weak that we just can't resist?

well then you shoud be ashamed of yourself

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Swan Noir:

There is no question of sincerity here. There is no sincerity. While de Tocqueville was a great admirer of American democracy he saw the fundamental flaw.


"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

Alexis de Tocqueville

he could have just said, "The American Republic will do just fine until peoplle like Swan Noir come along."

I guess it all depends on how you view the human race. I know how I am, and I don't think I'm that special. I'd gladly give up my life to save the lives of my children. And I think most others are the same way. I've been helped many times in my life by others who had nothing to gain by sacrificing their time and effort, for no other reason than that they were good and recognized a fellow man in need and wanted to help. And I don't think it is any different if you go to the USA or Iran.

 

[Swan Noir]

You have a deep abiding faith in human beings. You are entitled to that point of view.

Quote from oldtime:

he could have just said, "The American Republic will do just fine until peoplle like Swan Noir come along."

I guess it all depends on how you view the human race. I know how I am, and I don't think I'm that special. I'd gladly give up my life to save the lives of my children. And I think most others are the same way. I've been helped many times in my life by others who had nothing to gain by sacrificing their time and effort, for no other reason than that they were good and recognized a fellow man in need and wanted to help. And I don't think it is any different if you go to the USA or Iran.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Swan Noir:

You have a deep abiding faith in human beings. You are entitled to that point of view.

so, the does that mean that I should never trust you? If you move in next door to me, or even sit next to me on an airplane, I should just assume you are up to no good?

Yes, I have faith that deep down inside you are just as good and well meaning as I am.

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from oldtime:

he could have just said, "The American Republic will do just fine until peoplle like Swan Noir come along."

I guess it all depends on how you view the human race. I know how I am, and I don't think I'm that special. I'd gladly give up my life to save the lives of my children. And I think most others are the same way. I've been helped many times in my life by others who had nothing to gain by sacrificing their time and effort, for no other reason than that they were good and recognized a fellow man in need and wanted to help. And I don't think it is any different if you go to the USA or Iran.

That may be true of your generation, especially when there's no major crisis.

As for the younger generations, there are quite a few who think society owes them something. They will resort to barbarism rather quickly (think inner city flash mobs + Lord of the Flies).

 

[TGregg]

Quote from oldtime:

If I am given a choice will I always vote for what benefits me, even if it harms you and everyone else?

It's a common thing to see people make that choice with one exception, it also harms the chooser in the long run. Choice of path might be tobacco, narcotics, meth, booze, parking right next to the door to McDonald's three times a day, etc. Heck, look at the obesity epidemic in the US. People can't make the right choice between a third Big Mac or taking the stairs instead of the elevator.

Problem is, we've provided so many safety nets that (to paraphrase PJ O'Rourke) "We live in a whiffleball universe." Nothing bad really happens to us anymore. We do not have serious consequences to our actions, or at least not as serious as they used to be. As a result, we spend less time trying to figure out what might kill us and more time trying to figure out what feels really good.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from MKTrader:

That may be true of your generation, especially when there's no major crisis.

As for the younger generations, there are quite a few who think society owes them something. They will resort to barbarism rather quickly (think inner city flash mobs + Lord of the Flies).

two things/ perhaps society does owe them something

secondly, how you govern depends on your view of mankind

that's why, other than looking up their skirts, I never liked female teachers. Because they always assumed given the chance I would do something bad. And sometimes when bad things happened they blamed me for things I would never do.

Of course, I never did anything to assure them I was a good boy. All they knew is that I was constantly looking up their skirts and staring at their breasts. (who knows what they would have done if they knew what I was fantasizing about doing with them at night.)

yep, I had some pretty good looking teachers growing up. I still think about them.