AR15 advice

[destriero]

If you're in a situation where all the ammo you have is what you can carry, I suspect you would prefer to have 800 rounds of second best over 500 rounds of best. When you're out, you're out.

There is no exigent circumstance that I can imagine where I would need to hump it with 800 rds of any ammo. I would fucking dig a hole with my bare hands until I found water. Hit a deer with 5.56 and it's iffy. Not so with my 7.62.

It's exactly what is so absurd about these threads... making arguments on MV when it's blatantly obvious that 5.56 is vastly inferior. I have a bunch of guns in 5.56 and only one in 7.62. The reasoning is common-caliber. I have many 000s of rounds of SS-109 General Dynamics 5.56 NATO--best ammo made. My kids aren't going to *want* to learn to shoot a 7.62 SCAR. It's soft-shooting for a 7.62, but not for a 12yo. I can also (and have) convert my 5.56 guns to pistol cals. 5.56 platforms are often a smaller footprint, but rarely an issue (SCAR H and L are basically the same volume). My choice in 5.56 is very small (28" OAL), and thus an advantage to me for carry. The 9mm conversion is 25" OAL.

Otherwise I'd only own 7.62 in a rifle. The 5.56 fanboys talk about ballistics, but they are really referring to bullet-drop. The 5.56 is like rimfire at 200Y when compared to 7.62.

Home defense? As I have stated earlier--5.56 is stupid for home-defense. 7.62 is even dumber, but these guns are multi-role (truck gun, home defense, target, hunting, competition). You use what's available.

My idea of an ideal home defense weapon (other than shotgun) is a 9mm carbine. I have two.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

I'm not arguing with you. 5.56 cannot compare to 7.62, except in portability and recoil.

What do you think about the Liberty 50 grain 9 mil defense round? Is it a good option?

 

[destriero]

It looks great. I will buy some for my 9mm AUGs. Nothing not to like about that round. I have always been a fan of subsonic for obvious reasons, but this stuff should be fantastic in a carbine.

Almost the same energy as a 125gr CorBon, but traveling at 2000fps. Amazing.

 

[Magna]

What do you think about the Liberty 50 grain 9 mil defense round? Is it a good option?

tnoutdoors9 has been one of the best ammo testers for years on YouTube and like many others he wasn't too impressed with those rounds for self-defense. Admittedly this is the "Ultra" defense which may be slightly different from the "Civil" defense rounds by Liberty.

[LATER EDIT: ] I checked on their website and they no longer list an "Ultra" round. His test was 2 yrs ago and as he mentions at the beginning of the video they had to rebrand and rebox their product. Presumably over the last couple years they did that again and "Ultra" became "Civil".

 

[destriero]

ha, has he shot anyone with 'em? Did he use gelatin? I'll watch.

 

[destriero]

Jesus, 4" barrel at 1900fps. The stuff burns instantly.

 

[destriero]

OK, so you have a ton of flash and unburnt powder. So the stuff isn't necessarily dirty, but it's not smart to practice with this stuff. So no, I will not buy this stuff or recommend it. Lots of premature wear from a +P (voids Glock and other maker's warranty). I only buy subsonic anyway and I suppose I will continue to do so.

I guess it shows that muzzle energy/velocity. It's basically equivalent to a 125gr load in terms of energy, with more flash. Some recoil reduction, but a 9mm is tame anyway. Why go with +p wear when it's got slightly less energy and far worse penetration?

 

[TGregg]

Hit a deer with 5.56 and it's iffy. Not so with my 7.62.

First let me preface by saying I am not an expert. Now I can disagree with you with impunity . J/K of course. I know very little about any of this. But, from what I can tell a 1/7 can spin a 55 grain 5.56 at ~300k, basically just short of tearing it apart. Then when it hits flesh, it tumbles.

Or so I have been told. I've tried to set up people to shoot to test this theory and it is kinda hard to make arrangements.

Interestingly, 7.62 ammo seems to be about the same price as 5.56 (or cheaper). That is surprising. Perhaps my theory of buying the popular weapon has a weakness in that suppliers are still unable to meet demand.

 

[TGregg]

Anyway, this is mainly academic. The OP was concerned about home defense. No one is advising using .308 inside his house.

Yeah, I messed up on that to some extent. I want a rifle for "home defense" which is not "shooting some bad guy in my house" as much as "shooting a bad guy in a movie-like scene as he drives up to my place or away with my wife, kids and valuables."

I got the inhouse armament handled. Well, sort of. Everybody could use more guns. But the next purchase is a rifle.

 

[volente_00]

Lots of good points made by all, particularly Redneck. There have been reports of 5.56 rounds passing cleanly through bodies without any damage at close range. The round's devasting terminal effects come from it yawing or tumbling in the body. As a military round, it is FMJ, so there is no mushrooming like you get with a HP. If it manages to pass through without yawing, fragmenting or tumbling, it leaves a pretty small hole. I think that is a very rare occurrence however, and the most likely result of a close quarters hit is a big wound cavity.

Velocity is not the end all and be all of performance. Otherwise, the FBI would not have standards that involve expansion and penetration of ballistic gel after passing through clothing. One of the knocks on the Liberty round apparently is that it is so light, it doesn't get much penetration in ballistic gel. It certainly tore a giant hole in the clay in that video though, and that was after passing through Class IIIa body armor.