Looks like the guy from Friday covered his short today... Exact same size block trade went through today in FV.
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Anybody else short US 30 Bond
- Thread starter richard_m
- Start date
Quote from 10yr_DONK:
Anyone else get smoked by one of these block trades yet? Lost 5k on Friday in a millisecond bc some guy decided to come in and sell close to 21k 5yr notes. As if this market isn't risky enough we now have these random rip up and rip downs for no reason. I am trading this market out right which is pretty risky and it just got that much more risky bc of these block trades.
http://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/tr...&exchanges=XCBT,XCME,XCEC,XNYM&assetclass=1,6
Block trades have been around for some time - Not quite sure how a block trade can smoke someone - as they are all done at one price and it doesn't really move the market. Unless folks see a trade done then pull all their bids or offers and the market moves then, otherwise..... unless one trades on the fundamentals, the reasons are irrelevant -
Not sure how one can get smoked? Are you kidding me? Like I said I was long 5yrs and in a split second w/ nothing going on in the market the market evaporated 5 ticks out of no where. So someone is getting this block info real time and the on-screen future market is reacting to it. Don't act like you cant something different about this market in past few weeks. These block trades are happening almost everyday at random times and you have no way to defend yourself. Lucky I am not even trading big at this point in the year bc in the future this trade will cost 3-4 times what it cost me on friday.
Quote from 10yr_DONK:
Not sure how one can get smoked? Are you kidding me? Like I said I was long 5yrs and in a split second w/ nothing going on in the market the market evaporated 5 ticks out of no where. So someone is getting this block info real time and the on-screen future market is reacting to it. Don't act like you cant something different about this market in past few weeks. These block trades are happening almost everyday at random times and you have no way to defend yourself. Lucky I am not even trading big at this point in the year bc in the future this trade will cost 3-4 times what it cost me on friday.
Nope not kidding - block trades not shown are not new - this simply sounds like multiple traders reacting to the market (which is a conglomeration of trades) the individual block trade is not responsible for the market movement. If someone had entered a 21k order at the market that would be a different situation. Ooops you said that same thing in a different way above.
"Don't act like you cant something different about this market in past few weeks." Something missing from this thought??
Perhaps random from your or my view - but probably done at the appropriate time for the trader doing them.
Quote from GuyFawkes:
I thought you were kidding too DblArrow.
What do you think the market maker does with his new 21k position? Sit tight and hope the market goes his way?
Not quite sure what you mean "market maker" perhaps some institution? Sure its not likely some retail trader. Not sure what your question is - somebody somewhere is putting on a position with the thought that the market may move his way. Can't say what this trader was looking for but again that is irrelevant to my trading, just the market reaction to his trade would be relevant, and if I am long and his few ticks (5) SMOKE me, I think I have other problems - so nope not kidding.
people trade different styles...5 ticks in the 5yr mean something to me I dont care if that doesn't mean much to you. All I am saying is there are "sprays" in the market now and the market gaps a few ticks out of no where. Yes the trade doesn't take place on the screen but the actual market on the screen is reacting and unless you are privy to the information you can get yourself in trouble. I understand the market gaps after numbers etc...but when that stuff is over with the market rarely gaps like it does when these block trades are taking place. I have been trading for 6 years I am pretty sure i know when something new is happening in the market.
Quote from 10yr_DONK:
people trade different styles...5 ticks in the 5yr mean something to me I dont care if that doesn't mean much to you. All I am saying is there are "sprays" in the market now and the market gaps a few ticks out of no where. Yes the trade doesn't take place on the screen but the actual market on the screen is reacting and unless you are privy to the information you can get yourself in trouble. I understand the market gaps after numbers etc...but when that stuff is over with the market rarely gaps like it does when these block trades are taking place. I have been trading for 6 years I am pretty sure i know when something new is happening in the market.
Still trying to understand here, I trade for 4 ticks so yes 5 ticks mean something to me - not the point at all.
So you are saying the market will gap "spray", some number of ticks, due to one of these off market (not on screen) block trades? I don't trade the ZF, and I can't say I have noticed a gap in the ZN or ZB simply due to the off market block trades, then again that is not a direction I would have thought to look either. As these trades have been going on for some time that would be an interesting direction to look.
So, for it to be a new happening - are these block trades more frequent? Not really looking for an answer - I used to monitor the CME block page when I first became aware of it some time back - but never found it to of any benefit.
And I hope they have been more successfull than my 13 years of trading the bonds and notes.
I understand...I know these trades have been taking place for years but have never noticed the gap up or down on the screen. I trade at a place in Chicago w about 10 other fixed income traders and we are all experiencing the same thing. I was just wondering if others were noticing a difference. I think we set up a meeting with the cme this week to better understand what is causing this and why we feel it is different from the past. I will let you know what we find out. Thanks for replying!
Il Principe
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Quote from 10yr_DONK:
I understand...I know these trades have been taking place for years but have never noticed the gap up or down on the screen. I trade at a place in Chicago w about 10 other fixed income traders and we are all experiencing the same thing. I was just wondering if others were noticing a difference. I think we set up a meeting with the cme this week to better understand what is causing this and why we feel it is different from the past. I will let you know what we find out. Thanks for replying!
I see it. The order book flashes and a few bids or offers just disappear. I thought it was large mkt orders, as it usually happens around the end of a decent price move.