Any experience hiring a programmer? Where should I look?

H

Howard

Hi all,

Would anyone here have any experience hiring a programmer to create trading applications? Any advice on how to proceed? Where would I find one?

Long story short, I used a company I found on Guru many years back now. This was a start up company and I was very happy then since they probably underbid the project and also really put in an effort to impress me.

A few years later, I chose to update what they created, but they were now 10 times larger and didn't really need my business. So, as a compromise with pricing, I was left with one of their youngest programmers and it was a disaster in comparison. Monkey see, monkey do. I had to write out all the logic very detailed and we would always had misunderstandings and a lot of back and forth with beta 1-100 before closing in on something workable.

I now find myself interested in upgrading this application and I'm considering other venues. Alternatively, simply pay up and use one of their top programmers.

Any thoughts?

PS: This is not a very sophisticated software. Merely a statistical tool which automates a lot of stuff I used to do for hand. I could probably have done it myself in MATLAB if I were any good using that.

PPS: Long term plan is to learn programming myself, but it will probably take me a while.

Regards.
 
Howard said:
Hi all,

Would anyone here have any experience hiring a programmer to create trading applications? Any advice on how to proceed? Where would I find one?

Long story short, I used a company I found on Guru many years back now. This was a start up company and I was very happy then since they probably underbid the project and also really put in an effort to impress me.

A few years later, I chose to update what they created, but they were now 10 times larger and didn't really need my business. So, as a compromise with pricing, I was left with one of their youngest programmers and it was a disaster in comparison. Monkey see, monkey do. I had to write out all the logic very detailed and we would always had misunderstandings and a lot of back and forth with beta 1-100 before closing in on something workable.

I now find myself interested in upgrading this application and I'm considering other venues. Alternatively, simply pay up and use one of their top programmers.

Any thoughts?

PS: This is not a very sophisticated software. Merely a statistical tool which automates a lot of stuff I used to do for hand. I could probably have done it myself in MATLAB if I were any good using that.

PPS: Long term plan is to learn programming myself, but it will probably take me a while.

Regards.
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What is your budget per hours ?
 
just21 said:
https://www.upwork.com/?r
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Chances are you'll get the same crap you're experiencing with upwork. My strategy when I used them was to hire 3 people to independently do the same job. I'd keep the best product and just throw the other 2 away. It's cheap enough you can generally afford to do this, and increases the chance you'll get a repeat on that new guy looking to impress. Not a sustainable strategy for a business, as I discovered, but for a one off like this it might be OK.
 
I'm a software guy in my day job so I write my own trading apps. But if I ever got serious about making a software product for the marketplace I'd get another software guy/gal as a business partner. Hiring random strangers is a real crap-shoot with emphasis on "crap". You could get an experienced professional or some 19 year old script kiddie.

Something else to consider. Software professionals in North American and Europe are almost 100% employed. Finding someone good who can give your job undivided attention will be hard. You probably would like someone who speaks English, preferably in the US. That makes it even harder.
 
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Interesting thread and question. I am also planning to outsource some programming tasks, but the question is always to whom?

Howard said:
Long story short, I used a company I found on Guru many years back now. This was a start up company and I was very happy
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How did you find that company? What were the markers you looked for? Looks like you chose well back then.

-- anyone has experience with toptal.com?
 
Had several good experiences with Upwork. Each job was done correctly and fast. Payment was only done AFTER I agreed to pay.
Don't believe all this BS that it will be crap. My programmers were from West Europe and asked 50$ an hour. Software is running already a few years and never had any issues.
Upwork has programmers specialized in Tradestation, Ninjatrader and others. That is very important as they know these packages. A programmer with no experience in the program you use will deliver crap.
I let them program "the body", the mathematical part I did myself. Did not want to give away anything.
 
Mtrader said:
Had several good experiences with Upwork. Each job was done correctly and fast. Payment was only done AFTER I agreed to pay.
Don't believe all this BS that it will be crap. My programmers were from West Europe and asked 50$ an hour. Software is running already a few years and never had any issues.
Upwork has programmers specialized in Tradestation, Ninjatrader and others. That is very important as they know these packages. A programmer with no experience in the program you use will deliver crap.
I let them program "the body", the mathematical part I did myself. Did not want to give away anything.
More...
If you would be willing to share the Upwork names of the programmers you used it would be super helpful for them and this community. The problem with Upwork is the huge variability in what you get. Rewarding good work with recommendations helps the whole ecosystem.
 
Sig said:
If you would be willing to share the Upwork names of the programmers you used it would be super helpful for them and this community. The problem with Upwork is the huge variability in what you get. Rewarding good work with recommendations helps the whole ecosystem.
More...

I have some problems with your request:
  1. I once recommended a programmer to a member of ET. Because payment only occurs after delivery, the programmer never got paid. This ET member came on ET to ask about software and disappeared again when he got what he wanted for free. So there are risks on both sides.
  2. I have to protect myself so I cannot give these names. I used different programmers simultaneously and gave them different parts so that nobody knew what I was doing, and they only had to program these parts (without my know-how). The know-how (mathematical part) I inserted later myself.
  3. All you have to do is filter the programmers based on their experience with the software package you use. Normally they send you the fully working software before they ask payment. So if the software is garbage you can tell it to Upwork and you don't pay. As you know what you want you are in a perfect position to check if the software is what you asked for. For each piece they programmed I paid on average 50-75$. So even if you should have to pay for bad work the damage is small. Much smaller then the risk you take in trading. Each module was delivered very fast, many times within 24 hours.
 
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