Anxiety and nervousness

i havn't read every reply, if it hasn't already been said, it will also depend to some degree, possibly a large degree on your trading style, how you approach trading and how you define your trading strategy.

a well understood aproach to trading with a highly defined set of rules to enter and exit trades takes away a ton of mental stress because the decisions for such are predetermined...there is no 'on the cuff' thinking required in most cases.

time and experience create confident decision making.
 
I must say that there have been some excellent contributions to this thread (thankyou) and it is apparent that most if not all replies have been placed by traders who actually make a living out of the markets.

It is certainly not a coincidence that consistent profitability is intrinsically linked with psychological composure. I recall when I read Douglas's Trading in the zone, (about 3 years ago) my initial reaction was one of being repulsed, because at that point in time I recall feeling somewhat persecuted by consistent failure, which was due to the combination of my irrational emotional response to random undisciplined speculations for which I hadn't admitted to myself that I just didn't have a plan. I'm pleased to say that I now have my plan defined and with it the byproduct that is psychological composure.

One trader said to me a few years ago that all you need is psychological composure, retrospectively I disagree, first comes the plan, then the composure which is a byproduct of success, and this success gradually becomes reinforced until a new definition of yourself is created.

Do the voices ever "go away" completely ? I would speculate that after a minimum of one year of consistent profits where the trader uses the 1 min timeframe that it is possible for them to be completely eliminated (In terms of their capacity to influence your actions), as any pause for thought would reduce trading the 1 minute timeframe to a pointless activity (Unless you like losing money, which is a rather dubious thought). However my current thought at this point in my personal journey is that there may always be some kind of emotional chatter (however quiet), because the truth is our system is defined by the probability of an outcome being true, and therefore logically every trade is potentially a losing trade, and this fact must be accepted. Therefore in my humble opinion the acceptance of this fact will always retain a miniscule level of subconsciousness noise, albeit more or less irrelevant noise once the plan is defined.
 
Quote from wavel:

Everytime you prepare to pull the trigger do you listen to the chatter deep within your subconsciousness asking "Is now the right time" "What if this isn't the high I'm looking for" " Should I wait a little longer" ? Can you feel it ? What is the solution ?
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As long as you're not pissing your pants you're on your way.
 
Quote from wavel:
One trader said to me a few years ago that all you need is psychological composure, retrospectively I disagree, first comes the plan, then the composure which is a byproduct of success, and this success gradually becomes reinforced until a new definition of yourself is created.
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i agree with you, it takes a hell of alot more than psychological composure to be a succesfull trader.

it doesn't matter if the plan comes before self control or vice-versa. you will eventually be forced to hone both before success will be realized long term. composure isn't a byproduct of success all the time. again you will need discipline and self control before success.

dont over think it. its really simple...get a plan together and stick to it...period. define it intimately. if your a discretionary trader it may take longer. i beleive these guys need even further time to hone intuitive skills that bring that ultimate confidence. even then theres no guarantees but you get to the point you accept that its part of the game.

if you lean more towards technical strategies. define them so there are little to no decisions that need to be made ever. you see a specific set of events/criteria unfold...your decision should then be predetermined for your entry and exit....it should almost be robotic. the nervousness and excitement never goes away but it shouldn't even matter. you should have everything so well defined these feelings should have no impact on what you do either way.
 
Quote from DWV:

You have not truely ACCEPTED the risk in the trade. Once you really accept what could happen there will be no fear. Understand that defining your risk and accepting it are not the same. Read chapter 4 in Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas.
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This is absolutely true as long as the trader is trading mechanically.

However, if the trader is trading subjectively or intuitively, then the trader has to roll up his sleeves and delve deep into his own psyche and do some introspective work on himself. If that is the case then Van Tharp's Peak Performance Course is the the way to go, and nothing comes even close.

All the best :)
 
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

Do you understand how fast I need to operate? When I say there are no voices, I mean there are no voices...there is no time for them! The voices played out over a couple years while I learned. Now, the voices keep quiet and allow me to operate efficiently and effectively.

edit: The voices are there between trades, while watching and evaluating price and pace, but not during for me
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I second and third this one. If you wait to hear a voice, it's too late; the trade's over.
 
This may sound harsh, but the truth often is:

IMO, trigger shyness is the worst possible trait a trader can have. Has anyone here ever seen a trigger-shy trader manage to build himself a genuinely successful career in this business? I've never once seen it done- just wondering if exceptions to this rule exist at all.
 
<i>"I would speculate that after a minimum of one year of consistent profits where the trader uses the 1 min timeframe that it is possible for them to be completely eliminated (In terms of their capacity to influence your actions), as any pause for thought would reduce trading the 1 minute timeframe to a pointless activity (Unless you like losing money, which is a rather dubious thought)."</i>

Actually, a 1-minute chart is rather slow. Think about that... you have 59 seconds from bar close to bar close for deliberation. That is two complete tv commercials back to back.

For a very active daytrader banging out ticks, a 1-min chart is stodgy. If you work with 200 tick or smaller in ES, then speed becomes a factor. But speed of execution is not where those voices of fear and doubt come from. Speed has nothing to do with that, at all.

*

Fear and doubt, trigger-shyness etc, comes from base fear that potential losses cannot be overcome with subsequent wins. It is the expectancy of profit / loss ratio which quells fear. If you are trading a -2pt ES stop while targeting +8pt gains, the +4/-1 ratio of expectancy is much easier to stomach than a +1/-1 or guaranteed to fail -2/+1 ratios are.

Cut losses reasonably short... let winners run. THAT is the behavioral habit which builds confidence in pulling triggers. When you come to expect results of -$100 or +$400 per contract due to repeated observance of such, fear melts away.

For those who think a +8pt ES profit objective is unrealistic, take a look at the 5min chart for any given calendar month since Jan 2007. Several of those (and twice that size) swings are available most every day. Get good at hunting for them, and your fear will be be replaced by confidence.
 
Quote from lindq:

There are ALWAYS voices. It comes with the territory.
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How constructive or destrutive you allow those voices to be is up to you though...

This thread has had some of the best comments on "intuitive" trading that I have read here. Cheers to everybody.
 
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