You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
ANTI-WAR/USA BASHERS: WHERE ARE YOU NOW, MFERS?!?!
- Thread starter FRuiTY PeBBLe
- Start date
Quote from alfonso:
Of some of them, yes indeed they are.
...in the opinion of someone who evidences ZERO respect for or interest in human freedom.
I don't know which countries he's thinking of. Maybe he'll tell us. Maybe he's thinking of the former Yugoslavia - a highly exceptional case, and a prime example of what happens when the world depends on the European powers and the UN to keep the "peace."
Or does he mean "some of the people" when he says "some of them" - which might be a bit like saying that "some of the people" in Iraq, namely the Baath Party, its security forces, and civilians caught in the crossfire, are worse off now than they were.
Quote from Babak:
alfonso, are you implying that the people of the former Communist countries are worse off now?
Alfonso: Of some of them, yes indeed they are.
=============================================
Alfonso, I know we are in the same anti-war camp as far as this particular war is concerned. But I think your statement is too much to swallow. Give us an example at least. Even China is fast moving away from communism, and Cuba has eased up a tad.
What you might want to say is probably this--just probably: had the former communist countries such as Russia adopted a policy of gradual transformation from communism to free market economy, they would have fared better than they do now.
Mikhail Gorbachev was hailed as a hero in the U.S., but Russians suffered far worse right after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Everything was taken down overnight with nothing to help smooth the transition. It's only very recently that the Russian economy has started to pick up the pieces. This is something that most people here in the States don't get. They think they can install American style democracy overnight.
stock.
Tonight - daytime in Iraq - CNN's correspondent in the north, Brent Sadler, ran across thousands and thousands of former Iraqi soldiers simply walking down the road in an endless line, having left their disbanded units behind.
They didn't look like a defeated army: No stooped postures, no expressions of fear or shame or anger. Smiles everywhere - in fact, one after another, they appeared almost giddy. I saw two literally skipping - in bare feet - down the asphalt road in the middle of virtually nowhere. Sadler interviewed some of them, and they confirmed that they took very few casualties from American attacks, which concentrated on leadership and other critical targets. They affirmed that they had had no desire to fight for Saddam, and they described their service as conscripts in terms that made it sound very much like indefinite imprisonment. (One man described numerous escape attempts over his nine years of service. Others described punishments such as humiliation or execution for deserters.) They said they were looking forward to re-joining their families in the south - expecting a seven- to eight-day walk, with no money, no provisions, having to depend on handouts (or whatever organized aid may come)... and laughing all the way.
Gosh, what a horrible quagmire... Vietnam redux, fersure.
They didn't look like a defeated army: No stooped postures, no expressions of fear or shame or anger. Smiles everywhere - in fact, one after another, they appeared almost giddy. I saw two literally skipping - in bare feet - down the asphalt road in the middle of virtually nowhere. Sadler interviewed some of them, and they confirmed that they took very few casualties from American attacks, which concentrated on leadership and other critical targets. They affirmed that they had had no desire to fight for Saddam, and they described their service as conscripts in terms that made it sound very much like indefinite imprisonment. (One man described numerous escape attempts over his nine years of service. Others described punishments such as humiliation or execution for deserters.) They said they were looking forward to re-joining their families in the south - expecting a seven- to eight-day walk, with no money, no provisions, having to depend on handouts (or whatever organized aid may come)... and laughing all the way.
Gosh, what a horrible quagmire... Vietnam redux, fersure.
Quote from Babak:
alfonso, are you implying that the people of the former Communist countries are worse off now?
millions and millions are far worse off than before. go to Russia, Ukraine, Bela Rus, Bulgaria, Romania etc. and you´ll find out that people can´t eat their "freedom". as a reaction they democratically vote the former communists back into office - even in Poland, a member of Bush´s "coalition of the willing".
Quote from msfe:
millions and millions are far worse off than before. go to Russia, Ukraine, Bela Rus, Bulgaria, Romania etc. and you´ll find out that people can´t eat their "freedom". as a reaction they democratically vote the former communists back into office - even in Poland, a member of Bush´s "coalition of the willing".
Currently studying post-communist countries, eg Poland, Albania, Czech Rep, Slovenia; most of whom have not attained pre-capitalist levels of GDP. There is however, much debate amongst economists as to how the measurements were carried out before and after, whether GDP reflects living conditions, etc. What is not questioned though, is the difficulty of making the transition. The liberation of Iraq, good or bad, will take a long time to reach those most in need.
Quote from FRuiTY PeBBLe:
Can't wait to see the Iraqis pull down that big Saddam statue! What a wonderful sight! I hope they tie the rope on to one of our tanks if they need help.
msfe, let me guess, all these Iraqis trying to knock over the statue are Americans/Kuwaitis dressed up as Iraqis? haha you're a damn fool. Time to think of a new conspiracy, dude! I bet you're so pissed off and just waiting for something bad to happen. LOSER!!!!!!!!!
F. P.
The photographs tell the story... media manipulation on a grand scale. Yes, the occupation has begun.
http://dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63743&group=webcast
msfe,
please provide similar proof for all the picture of Iraqi's kissing soldiers, hugging them, giving them flowers, etc. all over Iraq (Nasiriyeh, Basrah, Najaf, etc.). My theory (already stated) is a secret mind control device in the hands of Rummy.
And please, puh-lease take off the tin foil hat and check out the pictures here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID66/17554.html#1
please provide similar proof for all the picture of Iraqi's kissing soldiers, hugging them, giving them flowers, etc. all over Iraq (Nasiriyeh, Basrah, Najaf, etc.). My theory (already stated) is a secret mind control device in the hands of Rummy.
And please, puh-lease take off the tin foil hat and check out the pictures here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID66/17554.html#1