An Interview with Dick Lindzen

I largely agree with you, but disagree on what I consider important points. I am in agreement that it matters what the cause is for the increase seen from he late 19th Century up until approximately 1997. The problem is that a few tenths of a degree increase is so small compared to natural variation that we are at a loss to distinguish it. Being able to distinguish it is not critically important however. What is, is whether Hansens hypothesis is correct, because if it is, we could be in serious trouble! But we can't escape the reality that there has been no net detectable increase since about 1997 (or so), and that considerably weakens the probability of Hansen having been correct. So we are talking now about the increase between the late 19th Century and about 1997. It would be nice to know what caused that, but it is far more important to know whether Hansen's hypothesis is correct.

A place where we would disagree is what the preponderance of evidence is telling us and of the importance of public opinion. The preponderance of the evidence is telling us that the Hansen's hypothesis is wrong, and it is telling us unequivocally so. Consequently we do not have to be concerned about reaching a Hansen "tipping point" due to positive feedback beyond which we would see a rapid uncontrolled increase in temperature.

We should not decide scientific questions by opinion polls nor media hype. We should let all that stuff, including marches and banner waving, go in one ear and out the other.

We should, on the other hand, pay close attention to what the majority of meteorologists and atmospheric physicists are saying, and they are now saying what Lindzen is saying (the majority, not all). They are saying we can't tell the slight increase in temperature we experienced over the past 150 years from the natural variance of climate. It is, however, consistent with the measurable rise in CO2 plus the other non-condensing greenhouse gases. And although we as yet don't have a way to distinguish what fraction of the increase in CO2 is man caused, because CO2 exchanges far more rapidly than Hansen originally thought, and the natural sourcing and sinking is two orders greater than man's emissions. (Many have just assumed that the increase is mostly due to man because the increase very roughly approximates the amount we have emitted.) The early hope that man's fossil fuel emissions had a unique isotope signature have been dashed upon the rocks by discovery that even larger natural emissions have the same signature.

Most importantly, for the purpose of addressing the validity of Hansen's hypothesis, is any evidence of positive feedback. (See Lindzen's talk before the House of Commons for much detail on this matter.) We now have, in Hansens's defense we didn't in 1988, unequivocal evidence that there is feedback, but it is slightly negative, not positive as required by Hansen. That is say that the response of our biosphere to a temperature rise is to dampen it via negative feedback, rather then amplify it via positive feedback. This is consistent with the known history of the atmosphere. It's also logically gratifying because if the feedback were positive none of us should be here! (This is something Hansen, unaccountably, missed in putting forth his hypothesis.) The satellite data, which is the best and most reliable data we have, shows us the feedback is negative, not positive.. Those are facts. We should accept them. If we don't, we will surely look like fools to future generations.

What should we do then. Well, we should still be conscious of our CO2 emissions and, for several good reasons, try to convert, at a reasonable pace, to alternate forms of energy with a smaller carbon footprint. And we should be good protectors of our biosphere. We need to protect our oceans and our forests from pollution and destruction. The animal kingdom's success is integrally linked with that of the plant kingdom. We must avoid over population. Birth control is hugely important if we want to be kind to our environment! I would say that if one feels the urge to take up a banner and march, then by all means march for birth control.

We should avoid, however, making public policy based on an incorrect hypothesis. To do so is nonsense.

Thank you, by the way for not calling every one you disagree with, including those scientists you've never met who have long-standing international reputations in atmospheric physics, "idiots and frauds". How very refreshing it is to have a discussion without name calling.

I'm not concerned about Hansen's hypothesis or public opinion or polls. I'm interested only in the preponderance of evidence and the consensus of scientific opinion, which is that we're warming and that the warming is man-made. As for name-calling, what's the point? Until a majority of scientists change their minds, the issue -- AFAIC -- is settled.

Res ipsa loquitur.
 
According to the head of the EPA, we have to clamp down on co2 so that negroes won't be adversely impacted by climate change.

"Of course, when the head of Barack Obama's Environmental Protection Agency — avowed eco-radical Gina McCarthy — played the race card in an effort to pressure lawmakers into adopting harsher anti-free market regulations, her pronouncements were broadly disseminated and treated as gospel.

"Carbon pollution standards are an issue of justice," McCarthy said recently. "If we want to protect communities of color, we need to protect them from climate change.""

http://antigreen.blogspot.com/
 
But we can't escape the reality that there has been no net detectable increase since about 1997 (or so), and that considerably weakens the probability of Hansen having been correct. ..... blah blah lot's of speech to text bullshit.

An objective rational scientist would NEVER bring this up. . There has been no pause in the warming of the earth at all. That you conveniently forget about about the ocean's influence is very telling.

A real scientist would also never say that we don't know where the sudden increase in CO2 is coming from. To say such is a thing is incredibly stupid and absurdly wrong. It's like saying CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

You, piezoe, are a fucking liar and a fraud like nearly every "scientist" you have trotted out. Who are you working for? Cato?

Piezoe, you want a conversation without name calling and insults? Ha! You are not worthy of any respect at all based on the obvious and absurd lies you sling. You are worthy of mocking and derision.

It is quite obvious that you are not interested in the facts and science at all, only denialist propaganda.
 
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But we can't escape the reality that there has been no net detectable increase since about 1997 (or so), and that considerably weakens the probability of Hansen having been correct. ..... blah blah lot's of speech to text bullshit.

An objective rational scientist would NEVER bring this up....

Riiiiiiiight...because it doesn't fit your climate change narrative.
 
1. where the heck did you get that idea? see your quote below.

2. Res Ipsa Loquitor? How does that apply.

Using the best statistical methods we have no proof we are warming outside natural variability and
we have no science showing man made co2 is causing warming...

finally...

which polls of scientists are you going to cite showing that man made co2 is causing the warming?
(please carefully review your polls before you cite them... because most of them say man made activity... which is significantly different.)









And you claim that the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere over the last hundred years is no different that at any other time during the last millenium?
 
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you wrote almost all strawman.

Every scientist understands the lack of warming in land temps blows out the models which predicted an increase in co2 would cause warming over land.
The models were not based on ocean temps.

No person with an ounce of integrity denies this.
Without the models working there is no science showing man made co2 causes warming.
That is why its important for you to keep lying.

Everyone knows the co2 comes from man and natural sources.
Everyone knows co2 trails warming in the historical databases.

So the unanswered question by you is...
what science do you have that man made co2 causing warming.. in light of all the recent studies showing its the sun and currents doing a lot of it?


But we can't escape the reality that there has been no net detectable increase since about 1997 (or so), and that considerably weakens the probability of Hansen having been correct. ..... blah blah lot's of speech to text bullshit.

An objective rational scientist would NEVER bring this up. . There has been no pause in the warming of the earth at all. That you conveniently forget about about the ocean's influence is very telling.

A real scientist would also never say that we don't know where the sudden increase in CO2 is coming from. To say such is a thing is incredibly stupid and absurdly wrong. It's like saying CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

You, piezoe, are a fucking liar and a fraud like nearly every "scientist" you have trotted out. Who are you working for? Cato?

Piezoe, you want a conversation without name calling and insults? Ha! You are not worthy of any respect at all based on the obvious and absurd lies you sling. You are worthy of mocking and derision.

It is quite obvious that you are not interested in the facts and science at all, only denialist propaganda.
 
American Chemical Society

"Comprehensive scientific assessments of our current and potential future climates clearly indicate that climate change is real, largely attributable to emissions from human activities, and potentially a very serious problem."
 
American Chemical Society

"Comprehensive scientific assessments of our current and potential future climates clearly indicate that climate change is real, largely attributable to emissions from human activities, and potentially a very serious problem."
You're a liar that sucks his brother's dick. You have zero credibility.
 
1. where the heck did you get that idea? see your quote below.

Because you implied that the increase is not unprecedented. Don't play games. See your statement below.

2. Res Ipsa Loquitor? How does that apply.

It applies because res ipsa loquitur.

Using the best statistical methods we have no proof we are warming outside natural variability and
we have no science showing man made co2 is causing warming...

Proof, no. Science, yes. You choose to ignore it.
 
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