Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens

really? You start a thread and then when people join with an adverse opinion and call out your made-up (non)facts you accuse them of trolling? Looks more like you have nothing else up your sleeve and pretty much ran out of arguments.

Ha, so you paste a post which is not even your original work and say it basically answered your thread title? Are you retarded? Why do you not sit in your basement then and read the story for yourself? No need to interact with others. Why did you put up the first post if that is all you needed?

Two people doesn't make a conspiracy. Just means I'm addressing two folks bent on trolling me.

As for what I expected to get out of this thread, I got it in the first post and have had to defend that point for the first 15 or so pages, after which were just responding to flames with flames. That's been the play-by-play.

If you would like me to engage into another related topic with you, fine. But if you resort to attacks/profanity and the like, please know that I will respond in kind.
 
Good, at least Deutsche Bank could get compensation for its losses, German folks are therefore fine. We can now let the titanic sink, the helicopter picked up the folks that paid for insurance ;-) I decided to respond with like comic.

 
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No more bailout money with strings? This is hilarious. Is this the first line from Jon Stewards Daily Show? Absolutely priceless!!!

:):):):):):):):):):)

WRAPUP 4-Isolated Greece wants no more bailout money with strings
Fri Feb 6, 2015 3:56pm EST

* Greece said to want "bridge agreement" on finances

* Athens rejects any more bailout money, wants loan authority

* Varoufakis empty-handed after European tour

* Eurogroup sets Feb 16 deadline for bailout extension

By Lefteris Papadimas and Jan Strupczewski

ATHENS/BRUSSELS, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Greece's new leftist-led government, isolated in the euro zone and under pressure from the European Central Bank, said on Friday it wanted no more bailout money with strings attached from the European Union and International Monetary Fund.

Instead, a government official said, it wanted authority from the euro zone to issue more short-term debt, and to receive profits that the European Central Bank and other central banks have gained from holding Greek bonds.

The official said Greece was in effect asking for a "bridge agreement" to keep state finances running until Athens can present a new debt and reform programme, "not a new bailout, with terms, inspection visits, etc.".

"It is ... necessary that Greece is given the possibility to issue T-bills, beyond the (current) 15 billion euro threshold, in order to cover any extra needs," said the official, asking not be named.

Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis returned empty-handed from a tour of European capitals in which even left-leaning governments in France and Italy insisted Greece must stick to commitments made to the European Union and IMF and rejected any debt write-off.

The Athens official made clear that the new government, which came to power on a wave of anti-austerity anger in elections last month, now wanted to forego remaining bailout money that had austerity strings attached:

"Greece is not asking for the remaining tranches of the current bailout programme - except the 1.9 billion euros that the ECB and the EU member states' central banks must return."

Euro zone finance ministers will discuss how to proceed with financial support for Athens at a special session next Wednesday ahead of the first summit of EU leaders with the new Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, the following day.

However, the chairman of the finance ministers said the following meeting of the Eurogroup on Feb. 16 would be Greece's last chance to apply for a bailout extension because some euro zone countries would need to consult their parliaments.

"Time will become very short if they (Greece) don't ask for an extension (by then)," said Jeroen Dijsselbloem.

The current bailout for Greece expires on Feb 28. Without it the country will not get financing or debt relief from its lenders and has little hope of financing itself in the markets.

NO PROGRESS SO FAR

Participants said no progress was made at a preparatory meeting of senior finance officials in Brussels on Thursday because Greece and its euro zone partners were so far apart.

"It was Greece against all others, basically one versus 18," one official said.

Athens' partners broadly lined up in support of a hardline German document rejecting any roll-back of reforms or commitments made by previous Greek governments.

Tsipras and his ministers promised in their first days in office to raise the minimum wage, re-hire some sacked government employees and stop some privatisations.

This clashed with conditions set by the IMF and euro zone countries, which have lent Athens a total of 240 billion euros ($270 billion).

The ECB raised the stakes this week by deciding to bar Greek banks from using Greek government bonds as collateral to borrow from the central bank as long as there is no prospect of an agreed bailout programme.

That makes lenders dependent on more costly emergency liquidity from the Greek central bank, which the ECB can stop at any time.

Greek bank shares fell further on Friday at the end of a week of wild swings, as brokers cut their forecasts on worries over dwindling deposits and brinkmanship between Athens and its creditors.

Ratings agency Standard & Poor's added to Greece's discomfort by cutting its long-term sovereign debt to 'B minus' from 'B', citing liquidity constraints weighing on Greece's banks.

Portugal, which emerged from its own EU/IMF bailout last year, joined the chorus of countries insisting that Greece must stick to the austerity medicine as Lisbon had done, pay its debts, and respect past agreements with EU partners.

NOT THE EASIEST ROUTE

Economy Minister Antonio Pires de Lima told the Reuters Euro Zone Summit that Lisbon had chosen a route "which was not the easiest one" to recover credibility and return to growth, and "that is also our attitude to the situation in other countries".

Varoufakis was expecting tough treatment from his partners at next Wednesday's meeting.

"It's expected, obviously there is pressure as part of a dynamic situation, we are in a negotiation. But we believe that we will reach a mutually beneficial solution soon," said a separate official from the prime minister's office.

Before then, Tsipras will deliver a policy speech to parliament on Sunday and seek a vote of confidence on Tuesday, which he is likely to win easily.

Euro zone officials say Greece is free to design its own reforms in line with Syriza's campaign promises, as long as the result is in line with commitments to stronger public finances, debt repayment and reforms.

Time to reach a deal is short. Some analysts say Greece could run out of cash as early as March without further euro zone help.

"Greece's financing needs over the next five years may amount to 30-35 billion euros," Italy's Unicredit bank said in a research note.

"However, if we set the primary surplus at 1-1.5 percent of GDP and assume that privatisations will stop, as requested by the Greek government, overall financing needs would rise to 60 billion euros," Unicredit said.

Both Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank said their base case was that Greece would remain in the euro zone, but a rise in deposit outflows had raised the risk of a crisis. (Additional reporting by Jeremy Gaunt and Costas Pitas in Athens and Lionel Laurent in London; Writing by Paul Taylor and Jeremy Gaunt; Editing by Giles Elgood, Kevin Liffey and Toby Chopra)
 
Sooner or later EU zone will explode , too many disparities in terms of corporate taxes, industry specialization , minimum salary ...
So the sooner the better
 
Have we not heard the very same story for more than two decades now? How many hedge funds have gone belly up putting money on the line with the exact same statement...Greece defaulting will not grant your wish so much is sure. After all 92% of the bailout funds have gone to satisfy Greece's creditors according to your friends on this thread.

Sooner or later EU zone will explode , too many disparities in terms of corporate taxes, industry specialization , minimum salary ...
So the sooner the better
 
My point is even after all theses efforts, the situation in Grece does not improve (debt is 175% of the GDP , so I think that creditors, Germany in particular, will be fed up to pay for Greece and can encourage to leave the Eurozone.
 
it did not improve beyond some initial success because Greeks rejected to adjust the way they live and spend money. Imagine banks and mortgage lenders as well as mortgage borrowers continued to engage in reckless credit risk events, I can assure you that the same firms that were bailed out before would not get bailed out a second time around. Greece had the chance to turn around and realize that their chosen life style and how government is run is not maintainable anymore.

Austerity by the way has shown that the debt to GDP ratio came down by quite a respectable amount once troika entered the country and forced progress (the ratio came down from 175 or so levels to 140-150 levels). Too bad Greeks have chosen to kick them out and revert back to their wasteful way of life. And yes, Europe is fed up and I do not think anyone trusts Greece anymore anyway. Once a liar always a liar.

My point is even after all theses efforts, the situation in Grece does not improve (debt is 175% of the GDP , so I think that creditors, Germany in particular, will be fed up to pay for Greece and can encourage to leave the Eurozone.
 
Sooner or later EU zone will explode , too many disparities in terms of corporate taxes, industry specialization , minimum salary ...
So the sooner the better

That seems to be inevitable but there will be other unions formed. I think Germany is keen to join an union with Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway...possibly also with Eastern Europe as whatever is said about these countries, the debt levels are much healthier compared to the Western members and there is no hostility towards Germany (except from Poland to some extent).
The Mediterranean scheming/gaming attitude in economics is just too different from the North to work together.
 
so why have Germans, Brits, Scandinavians with their strong currencies pre-Euro (the ones that you accuse of being currency revaluation cheaters) not vacationed in Greece as if there is no tomorrow? You have a distorted image of how people choose vacation spots, I am afraid. Thailand is dirt cheap and there are still high and low seasons. And even during high seasons the country is not overrun. Why do you think that is the case. I tell you why: Because there are non-monetary reasons. One is distance (Americans will not travel that much more often to Greece no matter how cheap the drachma, so that argument only works for those living nearby Greece), another is cultural issues (sex tourism in Thailand may attract your kind but may keep my kind far away [sorry I could not omit that ;-)]), many people want to be truly relax during their vacation and be at a safe spot rather than being pestered by necklace salesmen, painter salesmen, criminal groups, thieves, cheaters such as you can find everywhere in Greece (go to a popular public beach in Greece and you know exactly what I am talking about, basically Kuta/Bali in Europe). There are tons of reasons I could add that make Greece really not so attractive to draw more tourists than it on average already has regardless of the value of the drachma.

Good speculation, but that's all it is. Are you saying no Brits or Americans ever visit Greece? I'm American, and I went to Greece a few times. I also know quite a few Americans who love Santorini and have gone several times. I disagree with your opinions. Next.
 
of course you meant to say its German race, and you are Jewish and you feel offended. I am deeply sorry that I damaged your unshaken belief that Germans are not allowed to use the term "Jew" and are not allowed to be polemic nor ironic about other races. I deeply apologize for my naughty behavior and in advance apologize for any other German imperfections you may come across in the future.

I'm not Jewish, so you'll have to find other reasons to hate me. Sorry.

P.S. You still have not moved on to a single other topic than "Greece will go bankrupt...yes...it will go bankrupt". Wait wasnt there a tard saying "Small traders lose, they just lose". Are you two the same?

As I said, I'll post about what I feel. I don't need a "Content Nazi" telling me what I have to post about, thanks.
 
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