ahmadinejad freeing the brits

Quote from Rearden Metal:

If this whole episode hasn't taught all of you the difference between the Western mindset vs. the Middle Eastern mindset, nothing ever will...

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63611&highlight=honor

Iran created this entire crisis for one specific purpose: To <b>humiliate</b> a major Western power, and in that mission they have succeeded brilliantly.
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Their problem is that the humiliation only has an effect in Iran and Arab street (maybe N Korea too lol), which already supports Iran strongly anyway. The rest of the world will now see Iran as more of a rogue state. Neutrals will now be more inclined to support, or at least not oppose, future actions against Iran. The coalition will now get political support, instead of protests, for a more robust response in Iraq and the Iranian border against Iranian forces. A bombing raid on Iranian nuclear facilities is now much more likely. The rest of the Middle East (except Syria) was already getting concerned about Iran becoming a rogue power in the region, this will just intensify their concerns and make them more willing to kowtow to the US.

They have weakened their long-term goals and strategic position somewhat, in return for being able to brag to some powerless arabs for a few weeks. Not a good trade IMO. Remember their stunt with Carter? The US was humiliated for 400+ days, and suffered loss of life...but the long-term result was US backing for Iraq in the war with Iran, which neutered the ayatollahs for a whole decade. By contrast, the Brits, just by talking, got their troops back in 2 weeks. Time will tell what the long-term consequences for Iran are. But if you think other Middle East regimes like Saudi, Egypt, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey etc are going to do anything remotely similar, I just don't see it. These are countries receiving billions in aid from the west, reliant upon them for security. The last thing they want is to encourage another potential Saddam - and not even an Arab one at that.
 
The way those 15 walking wee wee pads acted was a damned disgrace. Military code of conduct which every American GI has drilled into him dictates the when captured you only give up your name, rank, and serial numbers. Anything beyond that borders on treason. The Brit's of old were a fierce bunch, what the hell has happened. This bunch was captured without firing a shot in self defence. Monty must be rolling in his grave.

Rennick out

ps. These chaps below would have captured the Iranians and sunk their ships.
 

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Quote from William Rennick:

The way those 15 walking wee wee pads acted was a damned disgrace. Military code of conduct which every American GI has drilled into him dictates the when captured you only give up your name, rank, and serial numbers. Anything beyond that borders on treason. The Brit's of old were a fierce bunch, what the hell has happened. This bunch was captured without firing a shot in self defence. Monty must be rolling in his grave.

Rennick out

ps. These chaps below would have captured the Iranians and sunk their ships.
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Military code of conduct, article V:
"When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause."
This is the American version. I don't know about the British one.

1. You post presumes that there is a war between Iran and Britain, that the 15 soldiers were prisoners of war. That's just not true, despite what you warmongers think.

2. Even if one would assume that Iran were the enemy, the code does not forbid the soldiers to say anything beyond name and rank. AFAIK, the british soldiers did not make any statements that were disloyal to their country or harmful to their cause. The fact that this was used by the Iranians for their propaganda is beyond their control.

3. Put yourself into their shoes. I bet you'll shit your pants and beg for forgiveness.
 
Quote from Cutten:

Their problem is that the humiliation only has an effect in Iran and Arab street (maybe N Korea too lol), which already supports Iran strongly anyway. The rest of the world will now see Iran as more of a rogue state. Neutrals will now be more inclined to support, or at least not oppose, future actions against Iran. The coalition will now get political support, instead of protests, for a more robust response in Iraq and the Iranian border against Iranian forces. A bombing raid on Iranian nuclear facilities is now much more likely. The rest of the Middle East (except Syria) was already getting concerned about Iran becoming a rogue power in the region, this will just intensify their concerns and make them more willing to kowtow to the US.

They have weakened their long-term goals and strategic position somewhat, in return for being able to brag to some powerless arabs for a few weeks. Not a good trade IMO. Remember their stunt with Carter? The US was humiliated for 400+ days, and suffered loss of life...but the long-term result was US backing for Iraq in the war with Iran, which neutered the ayatollahs for a whole decade. By contrast, the Brits, just by talking, got their troops back in 2 weeks. Time will tell what the long-term consequences for Iran are. But if you think other Middle East regimes like Saudi, Egypt, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey etc are going to do anything remotely similar, I just don't see it. These are countries receiving billions in aid from the west, reliant upon them for security. The last thing they want is to encourage another potential Saddam - and not even an Arab one at that.
More...

Yeah, sounds good, too bad you overestimate the intellectual ability of politically-correct, pacifistic, bbc-brainwahsed European street to draw conclusions based on merits and not on wishful thinking. They are going to keep using every excuse to justify actions of rogue regimes and dictators and blame themselves and the US, they are going to use every incident including this one to argue that the Ahmadinejads of the world can be reasoned with, they are going to keep twisting facts and ignoring evidence as long as it lets them keep their collective head in the sand and avoid a direct confrontation, especially a military one at any cost. And the cost will keep rising.

Sorry but I have no reason to believe that this crisis will toughen the European stance on Iran and muslim extremism. When Iran finally develops nukes and they start exploding in Paris and Madrid, not Tel-Aviv and New York, maybe then the Europeans will wake up.

Oh and btw, you wanted to hear about concessions, how about this one: "The Iranian diplomat released Tuesday preceding the announcement that Iran would free the 15 British sailors it had taken hostage was being held in a joint Iraqi and American facility..."
http://www.nysun.com/article/51853

Do I have a proof that these releases are related? Of course I don't but they happened within a 24 hour interval. Coincidence? I doubt it. I am sure you also know that there are no coincidences in politics. And it's likely just the tip of the iceberg.
 
LOL!

Capitalism washes away all sins...

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Big difference between his pics and yours. His pics displayed pure appeasment to dictators who had absolutely nothing to offer in trade, while yours involved the entirely different situation of Americans negotiating with bad guys who had very valuable goods and services to offer our country in return.
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Quote from William Rennick:

The way those 15 walking wee wee pads acted was a damned disgrace. Military code of conduct which every American GI has drilled into him dictates the when captured you only give up your name, rank, and serial numbers. Anything beyond that borders on treason. The Brit's of old were a fierce bunch, what the hell has happened. This bunch was captured without firing a shot in self defence. Monty must be rolling in his grave.

Rennick out

ps. These chaps below would have captured the Iranians and sunk their ships.
More...



Ghurkas? Yeah, no wonder they were such feirce fighters, they've been fighting for the brits for a good hundred years, for most of that time on nepalese wages, with no pension plan.

They were pissed off!

Its silly talking about pussification here, when the rules of engagement are so bizarre.
They might as well be merchent marine, peacekeepers might as well be lollipop ladies.

Besides, im just throwing this out there, but this was so easy, dont you think it could have been part of a plan?
And the iranians didnt take the bait?
 
The UK successfully got all its sailors back without any possibility of war, hurray.

Their reward for this endeavour is to put the world on alert that Britons are now on the "capture and release" species list for the next hunting season.

Although Iran got some PR out of it, I think the real focus should be on what the Prez got out of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the choices made had as much to do with internal Iranian politics as with regional sabre rattling.

All leaders are strongly motivated by the desire to survive - especially so when they are already struggling to buy the favour of the populace with subsidized gasoline that's drilling a hole in the state coffers.
 
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