So we can agree that no arab government (let alone the arab street) is willing to negotiate peace with Israel. Blah blah blah excuses, blah blah blah bad israel, blah blah blah zionism....That's what the idea of negotiations is all about - to work out differences and find solutions. Israel is willing to negotiate, Abbas seems to be willing to negotiate too even though he is trying to play hardball. Anyone else?
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Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
- Thread starter WAEL012000
- Start date
Quote from loanfinder:
jewish population is in iran and the openly declare that israel does not speak on their behalf.
Nor did the jewish population of the Soviet Union which was forced by the soviet government to denounce Israel. What was not publicized was that the reprecussions of not doing so were extremely severe.
jews in morrocco, egypt, tunisia, algerai prefer to stay where they are
Yeah, all 25 of them. The rest of them were expelled from the arab land during the last 60 years.
rather than take teh $30k offer and move to israel.
It was only $10K and it was only offered to Iranian jews
the solution to this is to reach out to zionists and educate them about their history with arabs and muslims. especially their history in islamic spain.
Myths & Facts Online
The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries
When the Jews of Medina refused to recognize Muhammad as their Prophet, two of the major Jewish tribes were expelled. In 627, Muhammad's followers killed between 600 and 900 of the men, and divided the surviving Jewish women and children amongst themselves.23
According to the Koran, the Jews try to introduce corruption (5:64), have always been disobedient (5:78), and are enemies of Allah, the Prophet and the angels (2:97-98).
When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results. On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.
Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.25
Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by the Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.26
Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854_859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).27
The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.28
PS Keep educating us. And oh btw, the person who claims that today the palestinians have finally achieved unity (that's at the time when Gaza belongs to Hamas, the WB belongs to Fatah and they were killing each other 2 months ago) can hardly be taken seriously.
Quote from dddooo:
jewish population is in iran and the openly declare that israel does not speak on their behalf.
Nor did the jewish population of the Soviet Union which was forced by the soviet government to denounce Israel. What was not publicized was that the reprecussions of not doing so were extremely severe.
jews in morrocco, egypt, tunisia, algerai prefer to stay where they are
Yeah, all 25 of them. The rest of them were expelled from the arab land during the last 60 years.
rather than take teh $30k offer and move to israel.
It was only $10K and it was only offered to Iranian jews
the solution to this is to reach out to zionists and educate them about their history with arabs and muslims.
Myths & Facts Online
The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries
When the Jews of Medina refused to recognize Muhammad as their Prophet, two of the major Jewish tribes were expelled. In 627, Muhammad's followers killed between 600 and 900 of the men, and divided the surviving Jewish women and children amongst themselves.23
According to the Koran, the Jews try to introduce corruption (5:64), have always been disobedient (5:78), and are enemies of Allah, the Prophet and the angels (2:97-98).
When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results. On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.
Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.25
Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by the Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.26
Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854_859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).27
The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.28
PS Keep educating us. And oh btw, the person who claims that today the palestinians have finally achieved unity (that's at the time when Gaza belongs to Hamas, the WB belongs to Fatah and they were killing each other 2 months ago) can hardly be taken seriously.
yes, let's refer to anti-muslim sources for facts on arab/jewish history. fact of the matter is, there was a time when jews could have been easily wiped out by the muslims. they weren't. why? bcos the quran clearly outlines the right of the children of israel and the pople of the book (christians) when they have a peace treaty with muslims.
i never said, they were arabs and jews were living like lovers (alhtough some were). im saying that it was alot better before than it is now. i agree that today even the original jews are being harrased however, they would rather live with the muslims than in israel. in fact, 2/3 of jews live outside israel.
During the spanish inquisition (Aka muslim genocide), the jews who didn't get killed or didn't pretend to convert to christianity fled to muslim countries. know fact. why? bcos those jews were aware of islamic laws and the rights granted to them as ones who had peace treaties with their muslim cousins. today, in morocco, you will muslims with jewish roots. mohammed kohen (spelled with a c and not a k)is not uncommon.
twist the facts but no one can erase it. fact is teh quran's bias is towards forgiveness and offering peace treaties to non-muslims. even when the prophet returned to mkkah from medina (christians in medina protected the muslims) with an army, he took the flag away from a companion who shouted "today is the day of revenge". he rplied with "today is the day of mercy". he forgave them and offered them peace.
what's interesting that jews then and now have so much anymosity against muslims even though the quran speaks clearly states to look after those jews and christians who gave up their war against islam and opted for a peace treaty (something the israelis can learn).
i can go into detail but since the same old anti-islam rhetoric has been brought up, i won't bother with reinventing the wheel when these lies (and others) have already been addressed:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
many people will quote the quran as if they have a clue. the quran is in arabic. not english. most translations are weak at best. ask any semite how difficult it is to translate hebrew/arabic or even farsi and you'll understand.
it's important to understand the historical context when quoting the quran. the quran was revealed over 23 years. it was always revealed according to the circumstance at hand. it's also important to quote the 2/3 sentences before and after the main quotation.
so when the situation was bad like when the pagans kept breaking their peace treaty and killed civilians, the revelation was harsh (e.g chapter 9 v1-10)
anyway, like i said these lies have been addressed, some will see through itothers blinded by their arrogance will maintain their hate against islam. im passing the info, the reader can be the judge.
take me seriously or not. elsewhere, i stated very clearly that the problem is the infighting. in reagards to the unity of the palestinians, i was comparing the situation to 60 yrs ago where tribalism was overwhelming prevalent(for those who are slow).
even though there is tribalism today, it is second priority to being a palestinian. so yes there is unity today compared to 60 yrs ago. still, it's not enough. electing hamas was a mistake. but who wants to vote for puppet fatah? best bet is to cite islamic history and law to hamas make them realise that jews have a right to a state in the middle east. just not with exisitn borders and zionist ideology.
plain and simple for the truth seekers.
Quote from dddooo:
jews in morrocco, egypt, tunisia, algerai prefer to stay where they are
Yeah, all 25 of them. The rest of them were expelled from the arab land during the last 60 years.[/b]
Funny you should mention that dddooo!!
Which Jews?? The ones your zionist ilk bombed their synagogs and terrorized into leaving???
http://www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/NaeimGiladi.cfm
Quote from loanfinder:
yes, let's refer to anti-muslim sources for facts on arab/jewish history. fact of the matter is, there was a time when jews could have been easily wiped out by the muslims. they weren't. why? bcos the quran clearly outlines the right of the children of israel and the pople of the book (christians) when they have a peace treaty with muslims.
i never said, they were arabs and jews were living like lovers (alhtough some were). im saying that it was alot better before than it is now. i agree that today even the original jews are being harrased however, they would rather live with the muslims than in israel. in fact, 2/3 of jews live outside israel.
During the spanish inquisition (Aka muslim genocide), the jews who didn't get killed or didn't pretend to convert to christianity fled to muslim countries. know fact. why? bcos those jews were aware of islamic laws and the rights granted to them as ones who had peace treaties with their muslim cousins. today, in morocco, you will muslims with jewish roots. mohammed kohen (spelled with a c and not a k)is not uncommon.
twist the facts but no one can erase it. fact is teh quran's bias is towards forgiveness and offering peace treaties to non-muslims. even when the prophet returned to mkkah from medina (christians in medina protected the muslims) with an army, he took the flag away from a companion who shouted "today is the day of revenge". he rplied with "today is the day of mercy". he forgave them and offered them peace.
what's interesting that jews then and now have so much anymosity against muslims even though the quran speaks clearly states to look after those jews and christians who gave up their war against islam and opted for a peace treaty (something the israelis can learn).
i can go into detail but since the same old anti-islam rhetoric has been brought up, i won't bother with reinventing the wheel when these lies (and others) have already been addressed:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
many people will quote the quran as if they have a clue. the quran is in arabic. not english. most translations are weak at best. ask any semite how difficult it is to translate hebrew/arabic or even farsi and you'll understand.
it's important to understand the historical context when quoting the quran. the quran was revealed over 23 years. it was always revealed according to the circumstance at hand. it's also important to quote the 2/3 sentences before and after the main quotation.
so when the situation was bad like when the pagans kept breaking their peace treaty and killed civilians, the revelation was harsh (e.g chapter 9 v1-10)
anyway, like i said these lies have been addressed, some will see through itothers blinded by their arrogance will maintain their hate against islam. im passing the info, the reader can be the judge.
take me seriously or not. elsewhere, i stated very clearly that the problem is the infighting. in reagards to the unity of the palestinians, i was comparing the situation to 60 yrs ago where tribalism was overwhelming prevalent(for those who are slow).
even though there is tribalism today, it is second priority to being a palestinian. so yes there is unity today compared to 60 yrs ago. still, it's not enough. electing hamas was a mistake. but who wants to vote for puppet fatah? best bet is to cite islamic history and law to hamas make them realise that jews have a right to a state in the middle east. just not with exisitn borders and zionist ideology.
plain and simple for the truth seekers.
No one denies that the Jews did slightly better in the Islamic world than in Europe, the article I posted is quite explicit about that:
While Jewish communities in Islamic countries fared better overall than those in Christian lands in Europe, Jews were no strangers to persecution and humiliation among the Arabs. As Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis has written: "The Golden Age of equal rights was a myth, and belief in it was a result, more than a cause, of Jewish sympathy for Islam."
Other than that your entire post could have been replaced with one word - dhimmi - second class citizens but somehow you decided to completely avoid it. I guess this is your idea of educating us, ignorant Zionists (i.e. people believeing in Israel's right to exist as a jewish state).
Jewish exodus from Arab landsQuote from WAEL012000:
Which Jews?? The ones your zionist ilk bombed their synagogs and terrorized into leaving???
In 1945, there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews (see table below) living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 7,000. In some Arab states, such as Libya (which was once around 3% Jewish), the Jewish community no longer exists; in other Arab countries, only a few hundred Jews remain.
Of the nearly 900,000 Jewish refugees, approximately 600,000 were absorbed by Israel; the remainder went to Europe and the Americas. Their population was gradually absorbed and integrated into the Israeli society, a substantial logistical achievement, without help from the United Nations' various refugee organizations
Quote from dddooo:
No one denies that the Jews did slightly better in the Islamic world than in Europe,
Other than that your entire post could have been replaced with one word - dhimmi - second class citizens but somehow you decided to completely avoid it. I guess this is your idea of educating us, ignorant Zionists (i.e. people believeing in Israel's right to exist as a jewish state).
i should be sleeping but what the hell. note teh contradiction in the statements above. jews did better among the muslims but dhimmi is second class citizens. i guess it comes down to inferiority complex. dhimmis mean the protectees. it's ok, some muslims believe they are second class in the western world. i used to think like that until i started making more money in 1 week than most people make in a month when i had my finance business. here's the refutation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Xotnj_nOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CE9G-U2Xw
i didn't avoid it. in fact i avoided coming into this war against islam/arab forums until today. i've been aroung much longer.
i will address all the lies and hate against islam but it will be done when the matter is brought up. then again, all lies have been refuted in teh link posted elsewhere. but i'll state it again for those who missed it.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
i have no problems with a jewish state called israel in the middle east. as long it's zionism is not spreading hatred. unfortunately, the facst state otherwise and that is why even intelligent people can be brainwashed.
imagine an israel without zionism. it would be the return of the golden age of judaism.
again, i don't blame the people. just the government for the false propoganda.
i never understood why people need to attack others. You will never see me attack judaism or christianity persoanlly here. i think it's futile at best. at worst, it can be offensive.
attacking religion and races DOES NOT solve problems. In the case of the zionists, it only speed ups the self-destruction of zionist israel.
So you'd agree that the Israelis and Palestinians should negotiate final borders based on 1967 armistice lines (some land swap expected) and that the Palestinians should drop their right of return demand and settle for a financial compensation, right? Cause if you do support the right of return you DON'T want a jewish state in the middle east.Quote from loanfinder:
i have no problems with a jewish state called israel in the middle east.
Quote from dddooo:
So you'd agree that the Israelis and Palestinians should negotiate final borders based on 1967 armistice lines (some land swap expected) and that the Palestinians should drop their right of return demand and settle for a financial compensation, right? Cause if you do support the right of return you DON'T want a jewish state in the middle east.
again, i think only 7% of the land was PAID for. so that's what israel will ultimately represent. it can be zionist for all i care much to it's own detrimental. your last statement seems likea threat. either i'm with you or against you. sorry, im not the rest of the world and you're not george bush. "either/or" does not work with me. im not under interrogation and even if i was, id rather die than be oppressed.
i've stated what i needed to state regarding israel as a state. 7% is what was PAID for.
im not interested in the UN and if you can be honest for once on this board, you will agree with me in regards to the irrelevance of the UN.
im afraid once cannot force the palestinians to accept one or the other. some may want ot be financially compensated. that's fine. others want their home back. in this case, the jews who are illegally occupying the Palestinian land should be compensated and then relocated.
let's put it this way, my family lost land and other valuables when india partitioned.
Then when burma nationalised int eh 60s, my family lost their factories, properties, cars, gold, etc again. on top of that, my grand father (who was a multi millionaire in $USD at the time) was thrown into a burmese jail. my dad ended up in a factory in pakistan.
actually, just before that, one of grand dad's partner stole over a million USD and setup himself as a competition against my family in our osaka office. needless to say, we did not have chance since he was the one who setup the office the in the first place.
his son is still our family friend and while he died a very sad death, we forgave them. their family is worth over
200 million dollars and reside in singaproe (where i spent my childhood).
we have not been compensated by indian or burma and neitehr does our wealth come to 5% of what we had(adjusted for inflation). to me, everything happens for a reason and gifts from god are wrapped up as challenges.
other indians who got screwed in india and then burma still hold a grudge. i choose to move on.
my point is that is up to the individual and they have a right to choose property or compensation and some cases both if warranted.
as i said, too much anger, hate, attacks. we need more understanding.
If we need more understanding then please understand that you can't simulteneously support the right of return and a jewish state in the middle east. These two things are mutually exclusive, you can't have it both ways no matter how hard you're trying.Quote from loanfinder:
as i said, too much anger, hate, attacks. we need more understanding.