Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."

Quote from dddooo:

So we can agree that no arab government (let alone the arab street) is willing to negotiate peace with Israel. Blah blah blah excuses, blah blah blah bad israel, blah blah blah zionism....That's what the idea of negotiations is all about - to work out differences and find solutions. Israel is willing to negotiate, Abbas seems to be willing to negotiate too even though he is trying to play hardball. Anyone else?
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Sorry but that is not what I said! What I said is that the arab states do not see any use in sitting on a negotiation table with a state that is actively engaged in denying the rights of my people, actively stealing land, actively involved in ethnic cleansing to impose status qoue, unequivocally rejecting the right of return and unequivocally rejecting the establishment of a Palestinian state over the internationally recognized borders.

As I told you before, aside from you trying to gain a chunk of the Arab wealth without compromising over these issues, what else are we going to talk about???
 
Quote from WAEL012000:

Sorry but that is not what I said! What I said is that the arab states do not see any use in sitting on a negotiation table with a state that is actively engaged in denying the rights of my people, actively stealing land, actively involved in ethnic cleansing to impose status qoue, unequivocally rejecting the right of return and unequivocally rejecting the establishment of a Palestinian state over the internationally recognized borders.

As I told you before, aside from you trying to gain a chunk of the Arab wealth without compromising over these issues, what else are we going to talk about???
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Which is exactly what I was saying, the arab world is not willing to negotiate peace with Israel. They are willing to come up with thousands of excuses why they won't sit down at the negotiation table instead. Their "No peace, no recognition and no negotiations" approach to Israel is still alive and well.

The Arab Personality
the Arabs externalize guilt: “Do I have a problem? – You are guilty!” Among them, there is no attempt to compromise. They have no tolerance for the justice and rights of the other. From their vantage point, justice and rights are totally on their side, and nothing will divert them from their total, one-sided position. Among Arabs, you will not find the phenomenon so typical of Judeo-Christian culture: doubts, a sense of guilt, the self-tormenting approach, “Maybe we were not entirely OK,” or “Maybe we need to act or react differently.” These phenomena are totally unknown in Arab-Islamic society, towards outsiders. They have no doubts about their positions or the justice of their side. They have no sense of guilt that they may have erred. They have neither twinges of conscience nor any regrets that they may have done wrong to anyone else.
 
Quote from WAEL012000:

Yes I am and I do!! And if that is the case...Why are you breaking away from your canned posts and bothering with me???
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Cuz you're a putz...
 
Quote from dddooo:

Which is exactly what I was saying, the arab world is not willing to negotiate peace with Israel. They are willing to come up with thousands of excuses why they won't sit down at the negotiation table instead. Their "No peace, no recognition and no negotiations" approach to Israel is still alive and well.

The Arab Personality
the Arabs externalize guilt: “Do I have a problem? – You are guilty!” Among them, there is no attempt to compromise. They have no tolerance for the justice and rights of the other. From their vantage point, justice and rights are totally on their side, and nothing will divert them from their total, one-sided position. Among Arabs, you will not find the phenomenon so typical of Judeo-Christian culture: doubts, a sense of guilt, the self-tormenting approach, “Maybe we were not entirely OK,” or “Maybe we need to act or react differently.” These phenomena are totally unknown in Arab-Islamic society, towards outsiders. They have no doubts about their positions or the justice of their side. They have no sense of guilt that they may have erred. They have neither twinges of conscience nor any regrets that they may have done wrong to anyone else.
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dddooo and his easy way out from his oral responsibility. You wanted to negotiate taking all and not giving any. If you have any credibility what so ever, you would've not annexed big chunks of the land (chunks of the 22% of the land that was originally ours), you would've not continued on your ethnic cleansing practices, you would've not turned Gaza and the West Banks to 13 big prisons and you would've not systematically destroyed our way of living and our infrastructure and our ability to financially support ourselves.

A guy who wants to negotiate peace would not hold the parents of the kids you blew off with a tanks shell responsible for not building a bomb shelter while they are watching their other kids dying from starvation due to your economic strangulation and due to the act that you have completely sealed their access to the outside world rendering their economy obsolete.

A guy who wants peace will not do that. What you want is to gain access to the Arab and Islamic world while doing the above to us. They called your bluff and you called them peace haters.
 
Quote from dddooo:

If we need more understanding then please understand that you can't simulteneously support the right of return and a jewish state in the middle east. These two things are mutually exclusive, you can't have it both ways no matter how hard you're trying.
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might want to re-read the first 4 paragraphs of my response. i can't see how it's mutually exclusive. unless ofcourse israel want's to retain jerusalem, it's 1967 border and zionist ideology. in that case, i agree, it can't be done.

israel is int he middle east and not the other way around. it would be stupid of me to create and islamic state in a non-muslims country like australia, arm myself to my teeth and then then expect it to exist forever while referring to the australians as terrorists for defending it's own country.

like i said, only 7% of the land was paid for and 7% of palestine is what israel is entitled to. that's fair.

i don't expect it to be agreed upon and that is why i believe israel will self-destruct unless the jews wise up. that is my opinion.

don't get me wrong, the arabs/muslims with their infighting currently have NO HOPE of defeating zionist terrorism. only the foreign jews can abolish zionism. either actively calling for an end or passively by withdrawing their support.
 
Quote from WAEL012000:

You wanted to negotiate taking all and not giving any.
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Cut the crap wael, everyone has grievances (legitimate and imaginary). One side is willing to forget these grievances, negotiate in good faith without preconditions, look for opportunities, solutions, compromises, the other side refuses to even sit down at the negotiating table hiding behind absurd excuses, preconditions and whiny litanies of complaints. One side has repeatedly proven that when the conditions are right peace is possible (peace with Egypt, Israel), the other side keeps fighting with each other (sunni against shia, Iraq against Iran, Hamas against Fatah, Lebanon against Fatah Al Islam etc) when they are not fighting Israel, the US or the West.
 
Quote from loanfinder:

might want to re-read the first 4 paragraphs of my response. i can't see how it's mutually exclusive. unless ofcourse israel want's to retain jerusalem, it's 1967 border and zionist ideology. in that case, i agree, it can't be done.

israel is int he middle east and not the other way around. it would be stupid of me to create and islamic state in a non-muslims country like australia, arm myself to my teeth and then then expect it to exist forever while referring to the australians as terrorists for defending it's own country.

like i said, only 7% of the land was paid for and 7% of palestine is what israel is entitled to. that's fair.

i don't expect it to be agreed upon and that is why i believe israel will self-destruct unless the jews wise up. that is my opinion.

don't get me wrong, the arabs/muslims with their infighting currently have NO HOPE of defeating zionist terrorism. only the foreign jews can abolish zionism. either actively calling for an end or passively by withdrawing their support.
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That's exactly what I am talking about, cheap propagandistic claims that you have no problem with a jewish state in the Middle East when in reality no practical, realistic 2 states for 2 peoples solution is acceptable to people like you. 7% of the land with the right of return!!! ROTFLOL. Some jewish state you have in mind buddy. Thank you for your generosity.

Nice try but it's quite obvious that neither you, nor wael nor the rest of the arab world wants a real peace in the middle east with Israel still existing as a jewish state. Keep waiting for Israel to self-destruct, I am afraid you're not going to live long enough to celebrate.

And thank you for your posts, it certainly demonstrates the concept of a "moderate" muslim our media loves so much to talk about. You pretend to be reasonable, civilized and open-minded, yet when push comes to shove you have the same unacceptable, maximalist, inflexible, uncompromising position as the rest of the arab street does.
 
Quote from dddooo:

That's exactly what I am talking about, cheap propagandistic claims that you have no problem with a jewish state in the Middle East when in reality no practical, realistic 2 state solution is acceptable to people like you. 7% of the land with the right of return!!! ROTFLOL. Some jewish state you have in mind buddy. Thank you for your generosity.

Nice try but it's quite obvious that neither you, nor wael nor the rest of the arab world wants a real peace in the middle east with Israel still existing as a jewish state. Keep waiting for Israel to self-destruct, I am afraid you're not going to live long enough to celebrate.
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i don't ever intend to meet the criteria of a "moderate" muslim from a western perspective. any reasonable person can see that a pro-western moderate muslim is a euphamism for a puppets. im a muslim, proud of it. im also a pro-jewish anti-zionist. flame a way. im not here to impress the zionists and their puppets. i will speak out against terrorism of all kind. im not in this world to worship the creation no matter how powerful they currently are. like i said, i refused to be dragged into the clash of the uncivilised.

seems to me israel want to keep it's current state and expect to exist in the middle east. let's put it this way, this state would not continue to exist if it were established in asia, south america, europe or even in northern america. why? bcos it imposes it's will on the majority of the region.

won't work. sit down without the arrogance and accept for what was paid for.

don't pay for a slice of cake and then steal the whole cake.

israel was created on lies and deceit and continues to exist based on lies and deceit.

how long can a lie last?

israel is only supported by the zionists and their puppets. i would not count on puppets (like my government) to be allies bcos they have no self-respect. so who is really left supporting israel? scary thought.

what's better? continue with your arrogance or be honest and accept what you paid for?

whether i live long enough or not (i believe i will), is not relevant. i don't hate zionists like yourself. they have families too. also, im not trying to impress the zionists. They are the minority in the /middle east and the world (even though their current influence is great).

i just want them to be aware that they can be safe outside of a zionist state just like im a muslim who is safe here in australia. i don't have to worship my government or sacrifice my beliefs in order to be loyal to australia. my allegiance is to this land and not to my puppet government.

the issue is the existence of a jewish (without zionism) state in the middle east. it can exist bocs jews belong in the middle east. just need to go back to the drawing board is all i say. current model of israel cannot go on forever
living on lies.

even the intelligents among the zionists will come to realise this. i just hope it won't be too late by then.

peace in the middle east cannot come at the expense of the majority. you see it as a palestinian/israeli conflict. the rest of the world sees it as an arab/ israeli conflict.

im sorry but you cannot bully the majority and expect respect in return. running to the US everytime there is a problem will only go on for so long.

eventually american's will get sick of supporting the bully of the middle east.

it's time the zionists realise that they are their own enemies. luck for them, the arabs are also their own enemies and that is the only thing that allows zionism (a european ideology) to exist in the middle east.

ok i'm heading back to sleep now. and pls don't expect replies during the first 2 trading hours anymore. hard to scalp and reply at the same time.
 
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