Age and trading

"NATURE" SURVEY -- LESS AND LESS BELIEF
The follow-up study reported in "Nature" reveals that the rate of belief is lower than eight decades ago.
The latest survey involved 517 members of the National Academy of Sciences; half replied. When queried
about belief in "personal god," only 7% responded in the affirmative, while 72.2% expressed
"personal disbelief," and 20.8% expressed "doubt or agnosticism." Belief in the concept of
human immortality, i.e. life after death declined from the 35.2% measured in 1914 to just 7.9%. 76.7%
reject the "human immortality" tenet, compared with 25.4% in 1914, and 23.2% claimed "doubt or
agnosticism" on the question, compared with 43.7% in Leuba's original measurement. Again, though,
the highest rate of belief in a god was found among mathematicians (14.3%), while the lowest
was found among those in the life sciences fields -- only 5.5%.








Hope for the human race afterall.





:-/

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"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

-Carl Sagan



"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

- Thomas Jefferson



Stephen Roberts explained the difference between theists and atheists as follows:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


 
Faster,

FWIW, many extraordinary scientists (e.g. Einstein) belive in God. Most of them started as you do, giving (English) logical arguments as to why he cannot exist , etc. However, as they studied the "Universe," they began to sense that this is not some accident, and that there is a "design" or purposeful element to the Universe.

One thing, the God they believe in isn't necessarily the Bliblical God, though they often, out of their religious upbringing, decide for personal reasons not to differentiate the two.

I fall into this category, but I do not believe in the Biblical God.

nitro
 
The correct facts.....

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

- Albert Einstein in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas (Einstein's secretary) and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press.

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"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

Upon being asked if he believed in God by Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the Institutional Synagogue, New York, April 24, 1921, Einstein: The Life and Times, Ronald W. Clark, Page 502.


____________________________________________________

"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation."

-Albert Einstein

____________________________________________________

Einstein's "God" lies in the apparent structure, consistency, and order in the Universe, not a supreme entity or thing.

:-/
 
Originally posted by FasterPussycat
"NATURE" SURVEY -- LESS AND LESS BELIEF

Stephen Roberts explained the difference between theists and atheists as follows:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


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This about sums it up. Excellent. Too bad we can't print this up into billions of leaflets and drop it on all of Islam, since they are among the most intolerant (and shall I dare say, intolerable) of religions.

:(
 
"As traders we produce nothing beneficial to mankind, we just reallocate the wealth. "------ quote by matoox

I too have to disagree with this one. For even on the micro level what we earn as traders we use to support ourselves and our family. We can use the earnings to send our children to college so they can fulfill their dreams. We can use our earnings to contribute to charity and support those less fortunate. It is what you do with your earnings rather than how I make it (as long as it is legal) that determines my contribution to society.
 
i love that quote too ...one of my favorites. in a beautifully succinct way, it raises an interesting dilemma "so if you do believe in God, how do you choose which one? and how would you rationalize your choice?"

:-/
 
Originally posted by FasterPussycat
"so if you do believe in God, how do you choose which one? and how would you rationalize your choice?"

:-/
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Answering this question is the entire point of the search.

The atheist does not get a free pass either- putting no authority above man creates serious problems. If man is the highest measure of authority, it means that there is no true right and wrong, every man measures himself, and any attempt to condemn a man on moral grounds is hypocrisy.

It is possible for the atheist to say that this is acceptable, that he accepts living in a world where force is the only rule and where morals are false constructs for the functional benefit of society only. But in their hearts most people know this is garbage, and it is the line of thinking that Hitler and Mao and other monsters used to murder millions.

If you decide to be your own authority, you must give that right to Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, the Columbine Killers, and every other monster in existence as well.

Furthermore, you must deny that life has any true meaning, because you must accept that all of creation is essentially a complicated accident. You are nothing, going nowhere, and brutal rapist murderers are no more or less than you. Your ultimate goals are crap, your ideas of "love" and "right and wrong" are deceptive lies propagated by chemicals within your system, and if society was taken over by bloodthirsty animals who decided to kill all those not of their race or creed it would not be "wrong" because there is no wrong, only force. Perhaps the biggest hypocrite of all, bigger than any religious person, is the atheist who is intolerant of dogma but has nothing to base his own intolerance on except the application of force. Disagree with religious people? shut them up with force, it is your only non-hypocritical option. You certainly cannot appeal to any morality or purpose of existence.

This bleak world is not in synch with reality and it is not in synch with what is hard wired into every individual. If life is ultimately distilled into experiences and internal understandings that we use to base our decisions on, then to throw away the foundations of everything you have understood on an internal level since day one, just so you can embrace some stupid autonomous pride and declare yourself the only authority instead, is blind and dangerous. Logic condemns this position, not some holy writ.
 
Originally posted by Rigel
I believe it's what we love that is important, not what others want us to believe. Believing what others want us to believe, in order to avoid punishement, is spiritual slavery. I believe that God wants lovers, because it is His nature.
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Truly I tell you, you are not far from the kingdom.

:)

saxon
 
Originally posted by darkhorse
The mystic who says 'I understand nothing and accept nothing' and yet jumps up when you overturn a cup of hot tea in his lap is demonstrating his hypocrisy.
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so true. i've used similar argument against people who advocate solipsism: you can't stop a stone flying at you by thinking "hey, everything is just my imagination, so the stone does not really exist!"

therefore solipsism is irrelevant: if you think that the outside world is just your imagination, and not "real", you have merely redefined the term "real" for yourself.

- jaan
 
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