Advice on buying some Pistols
- Thread starter Baron
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The question of body armor is often overlooked in this type of discussion. While it is obviously ideal to have the sort of knife proof(most vests are not knife proof) ballistic armor Ghost of Cutten recommended, the fact is most of us aren't going to that level of expense. What worries me is an intruder wearing body armor, even if it is only a level II vest.
All the talk about using limp loads like a .38 special seems to me to go out the window if you're confronting an intruder with a vest. Any vest is going to stop a pistol round cold. If you see the intruder is armored, you might be able to hit an unprotected area, ie head or leg shot, but that is asking a lot.
This is where something like a .308 comes to the fore. Unless they are using ceramic plates,which are very expensive, a .308 will easily penetrate a ballistic vest. Of course, it will also penetrate the walls of your house, your neighbor's house and who knows what else.
My question is how do they hold up against shotgun loads? I would assume a vest would stop the .410 self defense loads and maybe 12 guage 00. Not sure if they can stop a 12 gauge slug, but I doubt it. Also, I'm pretty sure a load of 00 or a slug would put an attacker on his back, possibly with severe injuries, even if it didn't penetrate, from trauma.
All the talk about using limp loads like a .38 special seems to me to go out the window if you're confronting an intruder with a vest. Any vest is going to stop a pistol round cold. If you see the intruder is armored, you might be able to hit an unprotected area, ie head or leg shot, but that is asking a lot.
This is where something like a .308 comes to the fore. Unless they are using ceramic plates,which are very expensive, a .308 will easily penetrate a ballistic vest. Of course, it will also penetrate the walls of your house, your neighbor's house and who knows what else.
My question is how do they hold up against shotgun loads? I would assume a vest would stop the .410 self defense loads and maybe 12 guage 00. Not sure if they can stop a 12 gauge slug, but I doubt it. Also, I'm pretty sure a load of 00 or a slug would put an attacker on his back, possibly with severe injuries, even if it didn't penetrate, from trauma.
Advice to bad guys: Don't break into Cutten's house - you'd be better off breaking into a Navy SEAL barracks! 
Quote from Wayne Gibbous:
Advice to bad guys: Don't break into Cutten's house - you'd be better off breaking into a Navy SEAL barracks!
That is a great reputation to have. I better get automatic machine gun turrets in front of my place.
You could use one of these:
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About cost - vests are pretty good value, $500 will get an excellent new one, they cost a bit more in Europe. www.bulletproofme.com has some good info.
Penetration vs body armour - even .44 magnum will be mostly stopped by a half-decent vest, and the typical vest nowadays is rated for full protection from .357 magnum. So .357 is no advantage over .38 really against a vest.
Vests are rated for 00 buckshot too, although I agree that will hurt a lot just from the impact force, and if you keep shooting, some is likely to hit them in the limbs or face. Rifled slugs have great penetration and should go through normal vests, but will go through walls and can hit neighbours too. That's also a problem with rifle rounds - legally you're liable for hitting neighbours.
My thinking on this is to have .38 and 00 buckshot as your first rounds, and then have a couple of .357 and rifled slugs as the last 2 rounds loaded in the gun. The theory being that if your normal loads aren't enough to handle the threat, then the threat is dangerous enough that the risk to your life is greater than the risk to bystanders. This is also a reason for having a knife, if you stab to the neck and/or slash at the arms, a vest won't help them - and a knife is deadlier and more usable at up-close range anyway.
An ex-gf of mine got stalked by her ex-husband, he was a pretty big and scary guy, and had attacked her once before, so I spent a lot of time looking into this stuff. That and I kinda enjoy it anyway, guns and knives are a fun hobby and might one day save your life.
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I live in a safe area, but I must confess the "don't lock the doors" comment was a bit of hyperbole. I'd be a fool not to use door locks...
I also have a few guns...1911A1 .45, S&W 9mm, 6 .22 target rifles/pistols, 8mm German auto (WWII), 12ga pump, 12ga double, .306, and a model 70 .375 H&H Mag with jacketed rounds - I don't think many vests will stop that bitch. Even if they do, I bet a few ribs will be broken...
Trouble is, with grandkids I have to keep it all locked up. In an emergency, with lights off etc, how do you get that gun safe open or trigger/cable lock off in time to nail the bad guys?
I also fool around with throwing knives. I set up a little "knife range" with measured distances and a big back stop. I'm not very good at it, but it is cool when I get one to stick just right, near the middle of a playing card. If you have never tried it, throwing knives is far different from the typical movie version...