No I don't. You still didn't answer the question - what is the cutoff point - or is there one? Is it acceptable to abort in the 9th month? I think you're afraid to answer the question.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Abortion is a Human Right!
- Thread starter 2cents
- Start date
No I don't. You still didn't answer the question - what is the cutoff point - or is there one? Is it acceptable to abort in the 9th month? I think you're afraid to answer the question.
Quote from DanFan78:
While the rest of you have been fighting, I have thought about what happens when these (unfortunately) unwanted children aren't adopted, and are shuttled around foster care and group homes.
Well I guess they can extend the abortion law to euthanasia for the unwanted. Unwanted inside or outside the womb - what's the substantive difference?
Okay, so if as a society we are going to prevent a woman from an abortion, is that same society going to guarantee that the unwanted child that results from a forced birth is going to be given the same level of care that any other child of parents who want children get?
Does the government guarantee that each unwanted child will get loving parents, proper nutrition, education, housing, clothing, etc?
A woman can make a mistake and get pregnant, and for that a child has to be born and suffer the consequences of being born into a situation where they are possibly unloved, unsupported, etc?
It is one thing to condemn the woman for getting pregnant, or the man who knocked her up for this mistake etc, but why condemn a human being to an unwanted life?
When I see the anti abortion crowd ponying up all the necessary love, money, and support to ensure every child born is given the best opportunity for a great human life, then I could begin to think about supporting their cause to control a woman's body from the moment of conception to possible birth of a child.
Does the government guarantee that each unwanted child will get loving parents, proper nutrition, education, housing, clothing, etc?
A woman can make a mistake and get pregnant, and for that a child has to be born and suffer the consequences of being born into a situation where they are possibly unloved, unsupported, etc?
It is one thing to condemn the woman for getting pregnant, or the man who knocked her up for this mistake etc, but why condemn a human being to an unwanted life?
When I see the anti abortion crowd ponying up all the necessary love, money, and support to ensure every child born is given the best opportunity for a great human life, then I could begin to think about supporting their cause to control a woman's body from the moment of conception to possible birth of a child.
Quote from filter_sweep:
I promised myself I wouldnât jump into the middle of this discussion, (last time I checked this was a trading forum), but I just canât help myself. I havenât been involved in an abortion related discussion in probably 10 years, and this thread has reminded me of the platforms upon which people base their arguments. Here are some comments & musings:
- These arguments will never get resolved through confrontation, because the criteria by which people pick their sides are completely different. Pro-lifers appeal to reason (pointing to when a fertilized egg becomes a human, and applying ânormalâ laws to that human), while Pro-choicerâs appeal to emotion (a womanâs body is her own, sheâs free to decide what to do with it, no one can tell her what to do). Itâs extremely rare to see both sides debate the topic by both appealing to either reason or emotion at the same time, thus they talk around each other instead of with each other and it eventually degenerates into name calling and insults.
- Every great civilization falls by first rotting from the inside out. There are certain qualities that allow civilizations to become great in the first place: hard work, ambition (distaste for not being great), but most importantly sacrifice for what is perceived to be a greater good. Once a civilization achieves greatness, and consequently wealth, it doesnât take too many generations to pass before these qualities can no longer be found amongst the majority of the people. People who have never had to work or sacrifice for anything donât know how to work hard, have no ambition besides pleasure-seeking, and are incapable of understanding that freedom requires responsibility. Itâs like an equation that does not compute for them. They think that their life is 100% their own, and they can make any choice they want without affecting anyone else. However, it is an interesting social experiment when everyone makes that same determination at the same time. It wonât take long for the soft underbelly to spread throughout the entire organism, and before that civilization becomes fodder for the next emerging civilization that knows how to work hard and sacrifice. This cycle has been going on since the beginning of time, and itâs clear to me that we are only a few generations away from disintegration. No politician, no law, no man-made structure can prevent a herd of âfreeâ people who accept no responsibility for their actions and endlessly pleasure seek and take what they want now without paying the price from ultimately destroying themselves.
- I actually enjoyed reading rcanfielâs posts for once
- My wife and I have 2 kids, but weâve looked into adoption before and we know plenty of couples who either have adopted or would like to adopt. However, adopting a child in the US is extremely difficult, and we know people who have been trying to adopt for years unsuccessfully. It appears to be a supply & demand thing: thereâs a massive demand for healthy children and not that many to go around. If the mother can be considered the seller, itâs a sellerâs market. Aborting a child because you donât think you can adopt it out to a family that wants it is, from my experience, an unfounded argument. Why wouldnât a girl/woman want to give the baby up for adoption? Unwillingness to sacrifice a few months of your life for someone else (both the baby and itâs desperately hopeful new parents)? Donât want the stretch marks? Donât want the shame or damage to the reputation? This is an appeal to reason, not emotion, so donât just come back and say no one can tell a woman what to do with her body. I think it boils down to an unwillingness to either sacrifice or take responsibility for your actions, which is a litmus test for where we are on the disintegration curve.
- I know a woman who aborted a child as a young teen when her boyfriend got her pregnant. She was confused and upset and getting pressure from her boyfriend they went to a clinic and did the deed. While it took care of the immediate problem, that decision has impacted her life in a multitude of ways. In her own words, she spent the next 10 years of her life heavily involved in drugs and alcohol in an attempt to numb the pain and guilt of that fateful decision. Even though she now has her life together, and is a contributing member of society, the pain of the abortion haunts her to this day. She told me that she does everything she can to pretend that it never happened, but every once in a while the thought escapes its prison in her mind and breaks into her consciousness. I was with her one day a couple of years ago during such a time, and I witnessed a breakdown that emotionally tore me to pieces. Here was an intelligent, beautiful grown woman, kneeling on the floor, tearing at her cloths and shrieking with horror as she exclaimed âI killed my child!â over and over again, wishing she could die herself. Iâve never seen such raw emotion before. At one point I caught a glance looking directly into her eyes, and I literally saw a pain so deep that it can only be described as hell⦠the hell that results from making a mistake that can never be repaid to the one who was offended. Until that moment I never had strong feelings on the subject of abortion, it was always just a theoretical dilemma to me. It is much more personal now. Howâs that for appealing to emotion? I wonder how many pro-choicerâs have either been through an abortion themselves or have spoken to someone who has while they are being honest with themselves, or if they simply enjoy being part of the freedom-without-responsibility bandwagon.
>Pro-lifers appeal to reason ...
Pro-lifers have no more a lock on 'reason' than the pro-choicers (see following)
>... (pointing to when a fertilized egg becomes a
>human, and applying ânormalâ laws to that human),
There is no "reason" given in the above statement ... only assertion. The assertion is that the egg becomes a "human" at the moment of fertilization -- that is an assertion that is without any fact to prove it. I absolutely concede that there is no "fact" to back up the opposing assertion either, but let's not call something a fact until it can be established as such.
>while Pro-choicerâs appeal to emotion
I have no argument that there are emotional appeals created by BOTH SIDES -- in fact, there is no bigger emotional appeal than the one you created in the last paragraph of your post.
It's actually entertaining that in the very post you accuse the opposing side of using emotion, you go there in spades.
JB
Pro-lifers have no more a lock on 'reason' than the pro-choicers (see following)
>... (pointing to when a fertilized egg becomes a
>human, and applying ânormalâ laws to that human),
There is no "reason" given in the above statement ... only assertion. The assertion is that the egg becomes a "human" at the moment of fertilization -- that is an assertion that is without any fact to prove it. I absolutely concede that there is no "fact" to back up the opposing assertion either, but let's not call something a fact until it can be established as such.
>while Pro-choicerâs appeal to emotion
I have no argument that there are emotional appeals created by BOTH SIDES -- in fact, there is no bigger emotional appeal than the one you created in the last paragraph of your post.
It's actually entertaining that in the very post you accuse the opposing side of using emotion, you go there in spades.
JB
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
Okay, so if as a society we are going to prevent a woman from an abortion, is that same society going to guarantee that the unwanted child that results from a forced birth is going to be given the same level of care that any other child of parents who want children get?
Does the government guarantee that each unwanted child will get loving parents, proper nutrition, education, housing, clothing, etc?
A woman can make a mistake and get pregnant, and for that a child has to be born and suffer the consequences of being born into a situation where they are possibly unloved, unsupported, etc?
It is one thing to condemn the woman for getting pregnant, or the man who knocked her up for this mistake etc, but why condemn a human being to an unwanted life?
When I see the anti abortion crowd ponying up all the necessary love, money, and support to ensure every child born is given the best opportunity for a great human life, then I could begin to think about supporting their cause to control a woman's body from the moment of conception to possible birth of a child.
If pro lifers aren't willing to pay for the child's upbringing, then kill it, eh? You are ALL heart.
Why don't we ever see you demanding that liberals be the ones to pay for universal health care? How about liberals giving up their jobs for affirmative action?
That's the thing about you libs. If you're for a policy, tax someone else to pay for it. If someone else is for a policy, they can pay for it themselves. And of course it all seems so logical to you.
If pro lifers are so pro life, then why not take responsibility for it? Life doesn't end at birth, it begins, and that is where you want to ignore the condition of life you force to be brought to life?
No, you want to abdicate the responsibility for forcing a woman to bear a child. Talk about abandonment of life.
Allow a child to be born in to terrible conditions that assure a life of suffering is an indication of ALL heart?
LMAO...
No, you want to abdicate the responsibility for forcing a woman to bear a child. Talk about abandonment of life.
Allow a child to be born in to terrible conditions that assure a life of suffering is an indication of ALL heart?
LMAO...
Quote from ilikefox es:
If pro lifers aren't willing to pay for the child's upbringing, then kill it, eh? You are ALL heart.
Why don't we ever see you demanding that liberals be the ones to pay for universal health care? How about liberals giving up their jobs for affirmative action?
That's the thing about you libs. If you're for a policy, tax someone else to pay for it. If someone else is for a policy, they can pay for it themselves. And of course it all seems so logical to you.
Quote from DanFan78:
While the rest of you have been fighting, I have thought about what happens when these (unfortunately) unwanted children aren't adopted, and are shuttled around foster care and group homes.
humorous. There is a multi year waiting list for babies to adopt. This is a red herring by anti-lifers. Try reading the newspapers about "couple willing to adopt your baby."
And secondly, it is assumed that people who decide not to have an abortion automatically mistreat or put them out. Show evidence for this, not your unfounded opinions.
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
Okay, so if as a society we are going to prevent a woman from an abortion, is that same society going to guarantee that the unwanted child that results from a forced birth is going to be given the same level of care that any other child of parents who want children get?
There is a multiyear waiting list for babies. There is no problem here.
Quote from DanFan78:
While the rest of you have been fighting, I have thought about what happens when these (unfortunately) unwanted children aren't adopted, and are shuttled around foster care and group homes.
The kids walk around angry. They spend their life looking for love and when love is staring them in the face, they reject it. They feel they are not worthy, they don't deserve love. After all, their parents threw them away, to the curb for the trash man.
They hook up with their peers, others like them who are angry and unloved they breed and raise children of their own, children who they are unable to love because they don't know how.