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Abortion is a Human Right!
- Thread starter 2cents
- Start date
Collateral damage of innocents during a war is not considered murder...nor is pulling the plug on a respirator of an innocent, or not resuscitating that innocent if there is a living will that gives that instruction...although both deaths are the result of actions by human beings.
You ain't be thinken too bright...
You ain't be thinken too bright...
Quote from AdvancedTrade:
A complete lack of analytical thinking to defend your case.
I am not sure there is an inalienable right to life. But as civilized humans, we form the world around us to protect the most precious thing we have - which is our lives. By assigning one class of humans i.e. the unborn fetus to an arbitrary death sentence says that we haven't come full circle.
Again, I don't endorse making abortion illegal. But it's a little like a successful trader - either you see the barbarity of abortion or you don't.
Taking an innocent human life is always murder notwithstanding the law.
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
Collateral damage of innocents during a war is not considered murder...nor is pulling the plug on a respirator of an innocent, or not resuscitating that innocent if there is a living will that gives that instruction...although both deaths are the result of actions by human beings.
You ain't be thinken too bright...
You're not the brightest tack in the box!
1. Collateral damage is unintentional. No one deliberately kills an innocent bystander - hence the meaning of "collateral" ( you can use your dictionary if this is a problem for you).
2. Pulling the plug with the permission of the patient not to resucsitate or use extraordinary means (a living will) is planned by the patient and is not an arbitrary act. No death sentence has been issued or carried out without the permission of the patient.
The "abortee" fits neither category. Although abortion is not technically murder in the legal sense, it is a callous disregard for human life. When the Nazis killed millions, they were not violating any law, but they were committing a crime against humanity. Abortion is legal, but it is a crime against humanity because the innocent has no venue to fight for its life. The death sentence is arbitrary and without regard for the human rights of the fetus. You can argue that a fetus has no human rights, but biologically it is 1) human and 2) alive. There's no rational reason to exclude the fetus from the rest of humanity.
Abortion is an acceptable act of barbarism in society. No law is going to change the attitude of people towards the practice. That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that.
"Taking an innocent human life is always murder."
Collateral damage is taking a human life and not murder, so is the doctor who pulls the plug taking life but not guilty of murder.
The "abortee" is not a human being or a human life, that's why they call it a fetus. That's why they call it "a birth a baby process"...not the birth of a fetus.
If you want to try to pass legislation to cease using the term fetus and replace it with the term human life or baby, good luck.
On principle, you will have to remove fertilized chicken egg and replace it with chicken life or baby chicken as well, etc.
"That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that."
Your statement is legally denied every time a legal abortion takes place, as well as morally denied as a taking a human life in most every case by the doctor and the patient, so your statement of "no one can deny that" is quite false.
People can deny it, and they do deny it...
"Nazis killed millions, they were not violating any law."
You might want to think this through before you go on repeating it...
Collateral damage is taking a human life and not murder, so is the doctor who pulls the plug taking life but not guilty of murder.
The "abortee" is not a human being or a human life, that's why they call it a fetus. That's why they call it "a birth a baby process"...not the birth of a fetus.
If you want to try to pass legislation to cease using the term fetus and replace it with the term human life or baby, good luck.
On principle, you will have to remove fertilized chicken egg and replace it with chicken life or baby chicken as well, etc.
"That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that."
Your statement is legally denied every time a legal abortion takes place, as well as morally denied as a taking a human life in most every case by the doctor and the patient, so your statement of "no one can deny that" is quite false.
People can deny it, and they do deny it...
"Nazis killed millions, they were not violating any law."
You might want to think this through before you go on repeating it...
Quote from AdvancedTrade:
You're not the brightest tack in the box!
1. Collateral damage is unintentional. No one deliberately kills an innocent bystander - hence the meaning of "collateral" ( you can use your dictionary if this is a problem for you).
2. Pulling the plug with the permission of the patient not to resucsitate or use extraordinary means (a living will) is planned by the patient and is not an arbitrary act. No death sentence has been issued or carried out without the permission of the patient.
The "abortee" fits neither category. Although abortion is not technically murder in the legal sense, it is a callous disregard for human life. When the Nazis killed millions, they were not violating any law, but they were committing a crime against humanity. Abortion is legal, but it is a crime against humanity because the innocent has no venue to fight for its life. The death sentence is arbitrary and without regard for the human rights of the fetus. You can argue that a fetus has no human rights, but biologically it is 1) human and 2) alive. There's no rational reason to exclude the fetus from the rest of humanity.
Abortion is an acceptable act of barbarism in society. No law is going to change the attitude of people towards the practice. That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that.
Quote from AdvancedTrade:
You're not the brightest tack in the box!
1. Collateral damage is unintentional. No one deliberately kills an innocent bystander - hence the meaning of "collateral" ( you can use your dictionary if this is a problem for you).
Abortion is an acceptable act of barbarism in society. No law is going to change the attitude of people towards the practice. That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that.
first point-
No, it's not-the deliberate killing of civilians has frequently been masked as collateral damage-it rarely unintentional, its a calculated risk.
The strafing of refugee columns in korea, the cluster bombing of cambodia, all the way back to the mass murder of europes religious wars, nothing collateral about it.
To the second quoted point, who knows-it's important to remember, abortion has been around longer than modern medical practice, so their MUST have been both good reasons for, and a demand for it; barbaric, maybe, but without examining the reality of history, the sheer barbarism of poor houses, orphanages, genocide, let alone war, it remains a high minded approach to failures in other areas, to reject it wholesale as a simple moral equation.
i think zzzzzz's done a good job at answering youQuote from AdvancedTrade:
A complete lack of analytical thinking to defend your case.
I am not sure there is an inalienable right to life. But as civilized humans, we form the world around us to protect the most precious thing we have - which is our lives. By assigning one class of humans i.e. the unborn fetus to an arbitrary death sentence says that we haven't come full circle.
Again, I don't endorse making abortion illegal. But it's a little like a successful trader - either you see the barbarity of abortion or you don't.
Taking an innocent human life is always murder notwithstanding the law.
but feel free to ask if any other questions... always happy to educate
I wonder, does abortion predate organized religion? Or did the advent of organized religion create a life or death choice of abortion?
There was a time when the church condoned and encouraged burning unwed pregnant girls at the stake.
Oh, whats the deal with all the shoes? Symbol of freedom?
There was a time when the church condoned and encouraged burning unwed pregnant girls at the stake.
Oh, whats the deal with all the shoes? Symbol of freedom?
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
"Taking an innocent human life is always murder."
Collateral damage is taking a human life and not murder, so is the doctor who pulls the plug taking life but not guilty of murder.
The "abortee" is not a human being or a human life, that's why they call it a fetus. That's why they call it "a birth a baby process"...not the birth of a fetus.
If you want to try to pass legislation to cease using the term fetus and replace it with the term human life or baby, good luck.
On principle, you will have to remove fertilized chicken egg and replace it with chicken life or baby chicken as well, etc.
"That said, it is still taking a human life - no one can deny that."
Your statement is legally denied every time a legal abortion takes place, as well as morally denied as a taking a human life in most every case by the doctor and the patient, so your statement of "no one can deny that" is quite false.
People can deny it, and they do deny it...
Your answer is irrational - not worth responding to.
"Nazis killed millions, they were not violating any law."
You might want to think this through before you go on repeating it...
Huh???? The Nazis were not violating any law on their books.
You need to do your homework on this one:
"The murder of the European Jews in the Second World War was unique. Never before did a state decide to kill a specific group of humans -- including old people, women, and children -- without any reservation or examination of the individual case, and enact this murder with the means of State power."
-- Eberhard Jäckel, German Historian and Director of the Institute for Contemporary History, University of Stuttgart
The laws on their books allowed them to kill whomever they pleased.
What you fail to acknowledge is that although abortion is legal, it is still TAKING A HUMAN LIFE. Like many others, you want to put that fact somewhere where you don't have to deal with it.
This is pure cowardice.
Quote from acronym:
first point-
No, it's not-the deliberate killing of civilians has frequently been masked as collateral damage-it rarely unintentional, its a calculated risk.
The strafing of refugee columns in korea, the cluster bombing of cambodia, all the way back to the mass murder of europes religious wars, nothing collateral about it.
To the second quoted point, who knows-it's important to remember, abortion has been around longer than modern medical practice, so their MUST have been both good reasons for, and a demand for it; barbaric, maybe, but without examining the reality of history, the sheer barbarism of poor houses, orphanages, genocide, let alone war, it remains a high minded approach to failures in other areas, to reject it wholesale as a simple moral equation.
The definition of collateral damage in its truest sense is well known - it is the UNINTENTIONAL killing of innocent bystanders. Your examples are anectodal and outside the definition.
Abortion indeed has been around since humans have been on the Earth. But barbaric practices i.e. throwing humans to lions, slavery, head hunting, ritual killing - all these practices existed until people woke up to their barbarity.
As I said previously, I don't endorse making abortion illegal. But I do think that proponents of abortion need to acknowledge abortion for exactly what it is - the taking of a human life.
"The laws on their books allowed them to kill whomever they pleased."
Not directly true. The laws did not state that they could kill whomever they pleased.
Sounds like you are backing off of this statement:
"Taking an innocent human life is always murder notwithstanding the law."
Your claim that was non one can deny it is the taking of a life has been refuted.
So abortion is legal, it is not murder, it is not considered the taking of human life by the law.
The term is fetus, not baby.
What exactly do you have but your own sense of moral outrage?
Not directly true. The laws did not state that they could kill whomever they pleased.
Sounds like you are backing off of this statement:
"Taking an innocent human life is always murder notwithstanding the law."
Your claim that was non one can deny it is the taking of a life has been refuted.
So abortion is legal, it is not murder, it is not considered the taking of human life by the law.
The term is fetus, not baby.
What exactly do you have but your own sense of moral outrage?
Quote from AdvancedTrade:
Huh???? The Nazis were not violating any law on their books.
You need to do your homework on this one:
"The murder of the European Jews in the Second World War was unique. Never before did a state decide to kill a specific group of humans -- including old people, women, and children -- without any reservation or examination of the individual case, and enact this murder with the means of State power."
-- Eberhard Jäckel, German Historian and Director of the Institute for Contemporary History, University of Stuttgart
The laws on their books allowed them to kill whomever they pleased.
What you fail to acknowledge is that although abortion is legal, it is still TAKING A HUMAN LIFE. Like many others, you want to put that fact somewhere where you don't have to deal with it.
This is pure cowardice.