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A message to those that constantly complain
- Thread starter intradaybill
- Start date
Quote from Avid_Consumer:
it's a fair argument that competition at trading is like competition at any other profession (surgeon, foreman, restaurant entrepreneur, etc).
the obvious difference though (in reality) is that in regular, (pedestrian?, real?) professions your skill differentiates you. there are no billion dollar dentistry practices. your local restaurant nemesis is not undercutting you in price because of his bottomless, too big to fail pockets.
in trading, you're bound mostly by capital and also by connections (ie legal flows of information and cooperation or convolved interests). there is no 1 unit restauranteur against a 1M unit local restaurant. but in markets, the 1 lot player is indeed up against exponentially leveraged competition.
the small player is simply priced out by fiat.
disagree and present all the success stories you want. small capital in "the market" is pwned by real capital, much more than in any other competitive industry. just imo. the imbalance is greater in finance than in any other productive enterprise, exponentially.
that's not necessarily a bad thing.
correct me if i'm wrong (i'm still relatively new) but trends are created by major institutions with billions of dollars initiating buy or sell orders
as a small trader, all we have to do is latch onto the trend, ride it for however long we feel comfortable and exit before the trend reverses itself.
those with tons of shares can't sell them all at the market without moving the price. however as an individual small trader, we can use that to our advantage
Quote from Avid_Consumer:
it's a fair argument that competition at trading is like competition at any other profession (surgeon, foreman, restaurant entrepreneur, etc).
the obvious difference though (in reality) is that in regular, (pedestrian?, real?) professions your skill differentiates you. there are no billion dollar dentistry practices. your local restaurant nemesis is not undercutting you in price because of his bottomless, too big to fail pockets.
in trading, you're bound mostly by capital and also by connections (ie legal flows of information and cooperation or convolved interests). there is no 1 unit restauranteur against a 1M unit local restaurant. but in markets, the 1 lot player is indeed up against exponentially leveraged competition.
the small player is simply priced out by fiat.
disagree and present all the success stories you want. small capital in "the market" is pwned by real capital, much more than in any other competitive industry. just imo. the imbalance is greater in finance than in any other productive enterprise, exponentially.
True. But isn't that also an advantage? As big money needs size. Some trades can be profitable but may not be scalable for millions of dollars. One can also follow the elephants knowing you're likely to win given their muscle. A small trader needs to think and trade like a martial artist who uses the opponents own leverage.
Look for situations that offer low risk entries. Squeezes are good for trading in both directions. If someone's hurting they will trade emotionally which is usually a bad trade. Take the other side. For instance that's why fading the gap works timelessly so well on many instruments.
[/QUOTE] small capital in "the market" is pwned by real capital, much more than in any other competitive industry. just imo. the imbalance is greater in finance than in any other productive enterprise, exponentially. [/B][/QUOTE]
Two different people trying to do different things, "real capital" can't get in and out in a second like the 1 lot trader . The "real capital" is trying to find liquidity . The 1 lot is usually trying to lean on a bigger fish's order . The market is a facility with enough room for those savvy enough to figure out how the game works.
Two different people trying to do different things, "real capital" can't get in and out in a second like the 1 lot trader . The "real capital" is trying to find liquidity . The 1 lot is usually trying to lean on a bigger fish's order . The market is a facility with enough room for those savvy enough to figure out how the game works.
i'm just speaking from personal experience, and i make no claim against creative genius, which definitely exists in the crowd.
institutions make a profession of hiding their size. the idea of front running real money is kind of obsolete imo, at least from retail information. it's true (in my experience) that it's not a huge deal to identify emotional extremes in price and trade them reasonably well over some period of time.
if you intend to premise your trading though on the idea the elephants move the chart, you have to realize that what you see on the screen in some exchange traded contract represents only a miniscule fraction of where money is actually moving in a given asset.
public and retail accessible exchanges only represent a fraction of the trading world.
institutions make a profession of hiding their size. the idea of front running real money is kind of obsolete imo, at least from retail information. it's true (in my experience) that it's not a huge deal to identify emotional extremes in price and trade them reasonably well over some period of time.
if you intend to premise your trading though on the idea the elephants move the chart, you have to realize that what you see on the screen in some exchange traded contract represents only a miniscule fraction of where money is actually moving in a given asset.
public and retail accessible exchanges only represent a fraction of the trading world.
Quote from 1flyfisher:
If you could teach any high school drop out with a sub par iq, average intellectual skills and analytical abilities to successfully trade you could be the richest man on the planet.
.....but you can't.
Even individuals with excellent analytical skills, knowledge of economics, solid math skills and extensive educations in finance etc simply do not automatically do well as traders.
Successfully trading and making money is a difficult endeavor. Most fail, especially individuals. The failure rate is extremely high there is no disputing this although placing an exact nu,mber on the % that fail is subjective ...but we should be able to agree that the failure rate is high. Just the external forces an individual is up against are enormous. The market is a harsh mistress. Financial houses have armies of economists, and security analysts sniffing out every little tidbit of info on a company that the average joe has no way of finding out. THEY HAVE THE EDGE. If you aren't bringing something unique in the way of personal skills and abilities and an inherent knack for trading the m,arket whill chew you up and spit you out. As it does to many.
So I disagree with your belief that anyone can trade.
If you truly believe you can teach anyone to trade than do so. You will be a billionaire in short order.
didn't rich dennis put all that talk to rest years ago? People cannot follow rules.
Quote from stock777:
trading is a lot different than MOST professions.
most occupations allow for even the inept to make a living.
there are NO inept traders making a living.
get real, and stop talking nonsense
Too true for comfort.
Unfortunately, this point (along with a lot of money and time) will be lost on the vast majority of those who attempt trading.
The notion that the right amount of "hard work" can make anyone succeed in trading is patently absurd. Look for the movie "Floored" to see how a number of the world's most experienced -- and formerly profitable -- traders are faring now.
And the market isn't getting any easier.
Quote from intradaybill:
Trading is no different than any other profession in terms of investment and knowledge required to succeed. It differs only to the extent that performance is measured real-time.
Like when you open a restaurant you have to invest a lot of money, also in trading you have to make an initial investment. You have to invest in education and tools.
It takes about 5 to 7 years to become proficient in this field. It is not different from learning a foreign language. Try to learn Russian and you won't be able to speak without making significant mistakes before 5 years of hard work.
Now, this is the case: 95% of traders lose because the other 5% who pockets their losses has done the hard work, has made better investments and has better tools.
This is no different than the fact that 9 out of 10 new restaurants fails because just one of them attracts all the customers. Its owners have done their homework and the hard work.
Many people think they are smart enough to win the money of other traders by just looking at screens and charts, without having made significant investments in tools and education. This will never happen. At the end, you get out of trading in proportion of what you put into it in relation to others. The ones that work harder make the money.
Thus, 95% of traders lose because on the average only 5% are willing to do the hard work and the necessary investment to win.
If you lost money trading it simple means you have not done your homework and/or you have not invested in education and tools.
These are your opinions and the opinions of others .There is no statistical evidence.
Maybe you are all part of the 95% of sellers of services to traders i.e training educators, system sellers, software sellers,brokers,signal sellers.
Why would anyone believe you lot hidden behind internet handles.Your motives might be to give a positive feeling about gambling red or black to new traders.
If the noobs realised your ulterior motives , if any, the income to you lot would drop.They would stop taking training education and pay commissions.You all would be out of business.
The red hat is ready.