“Ayn Rand and Jesus”

[nitro]

I predict we are in innings 4,5,6. I predict that the next wave of attempts by people will be massive global immigration creating a great diaspora. You will see massive movement away from Greece, Italy, Ireland, etc. This will work for some near term, until eventually the situation will become dire worldwide. With the internet and global communication instant, the system will be seen as an enemy, people forming massive global alliances. They will seek political philosophers and religious leaders from the past. We will then enter innings 7,8,9. Governments in the pockets of those that have the most to lose will be paralyzed. The endgame is still probably ten years away.

History doesn't repeat itself exactly, but it sure does rhyme.

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from ElectricSavant:

...what is necessary for holistic harmony for all.

What is necessary for "holistic harmony for all" runs counter to everything Nature does.

It will never work.

And IMO it's foolish to even pursue.

 

[MarketMasher]

Quote from mrman500:

Jesus encouraged charity. 'Donations' given at the point of a gun are not charity.

Hmmm....

Didn't the whole "sacrifice of the crucifixion" occur at the point of a (Roman) sword....?

Still could be labeled an "act of charity" though...

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from mrman500:

Jesus encouraged charity. 'Donations' given at the point of a gun are not charity.

Jesus encouraged charity at the point of the Go-To-Hell-If-You-Don't gun. 'Donations' given under moral duress are not charity.

 

[traderwann]

Quote from ElectricSavant:
The point is that mankind is judged and cursed.
St. John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Not sure where Nitro's thing entered into this, I was quoting IanMcQuade, "Can you become poor enough to make a poor man wealthy, in mind, body, or spirit.?" to which you replied yes earlier.

If you agree, then you'd agree with the Matthew quote I posted as well. If you've done so, then I think you'd understand and agree with what I'm referring to. If you haven't become poor, then how can you say yes in reply when you haven't had the experience?

I still stand by what I said, the answer depends on what you mean by poor and wealthy predicated by the comments I made previous to that. Top of page 10 in this thread.

The quote you give brings up the old conversation about what believe means. There are many other quotes that show it doesn't mean just intellectually believe, believe means do, it means action. Again, if you agree then you are supporting what I said, not disagreeing. Too many contradictions for me to reply with any value, I can't make sense of it.

 

[traderwann]

Quote from nitro:
My suspicion is that all this stuff works great on paper, but when implemented in the real world, man has shown to default towards [some] of the seven deadly sins: wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.

There is little to no objective proof of this. Never has man lived under a system that does not encourage these qualities while at the same time encouraging the beneficial aspects of man, as you admit below. This statement is blaming the victim, yet below you also admit that man is the victim of things that are not in his control. I have not yet met anyone who tells me they do not want to go out and work a decent number of hours after getting decent sleep, not being rushed and not fighting hours and hours to get to work, after having enough time for leisure and fun and family. I have never met anyone who doesn't understand (to generalize, yet 0.1% exceptions exist) that someone has to do stuff if they don't, it's only fair that everyone does something.

Of course, neither does the current system stop man from spiraling into this either.
As soon as people are pushed to extremes the way the current system is doing either consciously or not, we will see LOTS of wrath, and I don't mean riots and OWS.

 

[MarketMasher]

"Charity" is relative anyway. As I recall from the bible stories, there was one that went like this:

"And there appeared at the temple entrance, unnoticed by the elders heaping praise on the wealthy patrons and their large gifts, a poor widow, who produced two copper coins and placed them in the temple coffers.

And Jesus turned to his disciples who likewise overlooked her, and said, "I tell you the Truth - this woman has given more than all others - for they gave from their wealth, and she from her poverty, all that she had to live on."

 

[traderwann]

Quote from Random.Capital:
What is necessary for "holistic harmony for all" runs counter to everything Nature does. It will never work. And IMO it's foolish to even pursue.

You will never get what you never try to get. I suppose you believe that it is best to never try because you might fail before succeeding? I'd also disagree that it is contrary to how Nature works, but that's far too long of a discussion to get into.

 

[traderwann]

Quote from Random.Capital:
Jesus encouraged charity at the point of the Go-To-Hell-If-You-Don't gun. 'Donations' given under moral duress are not charity.

Let me guess, you've never actually read much scripture have you?

 

[RewriteQuran]

"Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain