9/11 Truthers

[Optional]

Wipe out everyone's wealth?
What are you talking about.
Who is 'everyone'?

Google Project for New American Century.
All the motive is right there in the open.

Quote from Maverick74:

OK, I'll ask you since no one else will answer. Why did we want to take down the WTC and destroy our economy and wipe out everyone's wealth including the so called wealthy people behind this. I'm all ears.

 

[377OHMS]

Quote from Optional:

Wipe out everyone's wealth?
What are you talking about.
Who is 'everyone'?

Google Project for New American Century.
All the motive is right there in the open.

Nonsense.

Anyone who believes the government would kill 3000 of its own citizens for some vague purpose is mentally ill. No other conclusion is possible. We don't care if "it doesn't add up" for you.

Mentally ill people often have trouble adding things up.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Optional:

Wipe out everyone's wealth?
What are you talking about.
Who is 'everyone'?

Google Project for New American Century.
All the motive is right there in the open.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tgz5-8chSlk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Larson:

... So, we are still vulnerable to something like this, once they get in the air?

I think so. 1) TSA is all but useless on stopping weapons from getting on board. IN fact 70% - 80% of the attempted terrorist attacks since 911 have been thwarted average citizens NOT the government. 2) Although I imagine the system could get jets scrambled faster than they did for 911 there's is nothing stopping the hijackers from turning off their transponders and descending below radar coverage again. 3) How long would it take Odumbo to issue an order to shoot down an airliner full of civilians? How many will be killed from falling debris?

Somehow, I just can't grasp that the best Air Force in the world can't protect it's own airspace, particularly over the capital.

The capital is a little different. Supposedly they have shoulder fired missiles on the roof. But even then by the time they're sure they're under a genuine attack the plane they shoot out of the sky is likely to kill as many or more than if it had hit it's target. Personally I think unless you're willing to profile airline passengers like the Israeli's do and all but shut down private/general aviation we're just stuck with this vulnerability.
The price of political correctness and freedom as it were.

 

[Trader666]

+1

Quote from 377OHMS:

Nonsense.

Anyone who believes the government would kill 3000 of its own citizens for some vague purpose is mentally ill. No other conclusion is possible. We don't care if "it doesn't add up" for you.

Mentally ill people often have trouble adding things up.

 

[wiesman02]

Quote from Maverick74:

For all you 9/11 truthers out there, did we land on the moon and can you prove it?

Whenever I talk to a 9/11 truther when you move away from the engineering aspect of it and over to the logic side, the story usually falls apart.

For example, say only 10 people in the entire world knew and planned this. I think thousands of people would need to be involved but let's say it's only 10. Where are those 10 people? They would have to be killed no? Everybody talks. Everybody! These guys would not keep their mouth shut. So where are they?

Then we get the reasons of getting into war. Since when has this country ever needed a reason for getting into war. Obama just started 3 wars without even telling anybody. Yet, we needed to go through all this trouble to invade Iraq of all places. Look, Iraq violated their UN sanctions. It's a stupid reason to go to war, but that is all congress needed. No reason to create the most elaborate, complicated scheme ever known to man to invade a country that no one in this fucking world gives two shits about.

And for what? Oil? We never got any Iraqi oil. All Saddam's oil contracts were with Total of France, not with us. We never even used any of that oil money to pay for the war.

And why not blow up a inconsequential building in Sarasota, FL or something. Why take a building that you know is going to cripple our economy and probably throw all the existing public officials out of office, which it did. Why destroy stocks markets all over the world wiping out trillions in wealth including all the rich people supposedly behind all this.

None of these questions ever get answered. I'm suppose to shut up and suspend all belief because, you know, the government is bad.

Look, nobody on ET talks about how incompetent our government is more then me. We can't deliver the mail, social security, fix bridges, run the DMV or even keep illegals from coming over here with impunity. I hate to say it, but we are going to have a lot more 9/11's in our future because Washington now can't even sit down and work out a budget. Our government is so helpless that in the world of random events, these things are bound to happen.

Of course parts of the 9/11 story don't add up. Parts of every story don't add up. They don't add because unless you are God, we are dealing with incomplete information. Whether it be as traders in the market or dealing with why your spouse or children are not talking to you. We never have the whole story. There are always contradicting clues about everything under the sun.

The conspiracy guy is filled with such hate and emptiness, that he clings to these things just to show the world that his hate of all things are justified. The hate could be towards the government, a particular party, a particular race or ethnicity or even a socioeconomic group. It's why politicians always play the race card or the class warfare card. Because it's easy to create hate and envy. In other words, it works.

I lived in NY on 9'11 and was in the WTC 45 minutes before the first plane hit. I lived it. I stood outside after the first plane hit and looked at the gaping hole in the building with flames coming out. It's something one will never forget. I was there when both towers collapsed. I will never forget the never ending snow of papers falling from the sky for hours upon hours. The smell of burning computers. The 3 inches of soot on the ground you had to walk through.

I have talked to a lot of 9/11 truthers over the years and the one thing they all have in common is an abject hate of government. Quite frankly these people really scare me. They remind me a lot of Timothy McVeigh. The problem with hate is that it over rides logic. It lives and breathes on emotion. It does not allow one ever to see or understand things clearly. While I have no love for the government, I do not hate it. People in power are just like us, only they have power. They are needy as we are, as greedy as we are, as incompetent as we are and they have the same desires as we have. There is no "they" as a group. There is no "world order" no boogeyman out to get you. They are just a bunch of people who probably could not hack it in the private sector.

As far as I can tell 9/11 did nothing for "them". Our stock markets never recovered. Our housing market collapsed. The US has now become irrelevant on the world political scene with the emergence of China, India and Brazil. But hey Saddam is dead! None of the backstory makes any sense. There is no motive. All there is is hate.

Unfortunately the hate will never go away. Now the hate has been transferred to Obama and in 2 years it might be Romney. The hate never dies, it just gets passed down to future generations. The conspiracies will never go away. It's not possible for them to go away because we will never ever have the complete story to anything.

VERY VERY VERY good post ! Awesome perspective, and I agree.

There's still one thing that bugs me. There were witnesses / gov't employees that say they recovered the black boxes. But, mysteriously they all vanish and the FBI says it never got them, yet FBI employees say they recovered some. Perhaps there's a reasonable explanation there, but the conspiracy theorists sure had a field day with that one !

 

[Larson]

Quote from Maverick74:

For all you 9/11 truthers out there, did we land on the moon and can you prove it?

Whenever I talk to a 9/11 truther when you move away from the engineering aspect of it and over to the logic side, the story usually falls apart.

For example, say only 10 people in the entire world knew and planned this. I think thousands of people would need to be involved but let's say it's only 10. Where are those 10 people? They would have to be killed no? Everybody talks. Everybody! These guys would not keep their mouth shut. So where are they?

Then we get the reasons of getting into war. Since when has this country ever needed a reason for getting into war. Obama just started 3 wars without even telling anybody. Yet, we needed to go through all this trouble to invade Iraq of all places. Look, Iraq violated their UN sanctions. It's a stupid reason to go to war, but that is all congress needed. No reason to create the most elaborate, complicated scheme ever known to man to invade a country that no one in this fucking world gives two shits about.

And for what? Oil? We never got any Iraqi oil. All Saddam's oil contracts were with Total of France, not with us. We never even used any of that oil money to pay for the war.

And why not blow up a inconsequential building in Sarasota, FL or something. Why take a building that you know is going to cripple our economy and probably throw all the existing public officials out of office, which it did. Why destroy stocks markets all over the world wiping out trillions in wealth including all the rich people supposedly behind all this.

None of these questions ever get answered. I'm suppose to shut up and suspend all belief because, you know, the government is bad.

Look, nobody on ET talks about how incompetent our government is more then me. We can't deliver the mail, social security, fix bridges, run the DMV or even keep illegals from coming over here with impunity. I hate to say it, but we are going to have a lot more 9/11's in our future because Washington now can't even sit down and work out a budget. Our government is so helpless that in the world of random events, these things are bound to happen.

Of course parts of the 9/11 story don't add up. Parts of every story don't add up. They don't add because unless you are God, we are dealing with incomplete information. Whether it be as traders in the market or dealing with why your spouse or children are not talking to you. We never have the whole story. There are always contradicting clues about everything under the sun.

The conspiracy guy is filled with such hate and emptiness, that he clings to these things just to show the world that his hate of all things are justified. The hate could be towards the government, a particular party, a particular race or ethnicity or even a socioeconomic group. It's why politicians always play the race card or the class warfare card. Because it's easy to create hate and envy. In other words, it works.

I lived in NY on 9'11 and was in the WTC 45 minutes before the first plane hit. I lived it. I stood outside after the first plane hit and looked at the gaping hole in the building with flames coming out. It's something one will never forget. I was there when both towers collapsed. I will never forget the never ending snow of papers falling from the sky for hours upon hours. The smell of burning computers. The 3 inches of soot on the ground you had to walk through.

I have talked to a lot of 9/11 truthers over the years and the one thing they all have in common is an abject hate of government. Quite frankly these people really scare me. They remind me a lot of Timothy McVeigh. The problem with hate is that it over rides logic. It lives and breathes on emotion. It does not allow one ever to see or understand things clearly. While I have no love for the government, I do not hate it. People in power are just like us, only they have power. They are needy as we are, as greedy as we are, as incompetent as we are and they have the same desires as we have. There is no "they" as a group. There is no "world order" no boogeyman out to get you. They are just a bunch of people who probably could not hack it in the private sector.

As far as I can tell 9/11 did nothing for "them". Our stock markets never recovered. Our housing market collapsed. The US has now become irrelevant on the world political scene with the emergence of China, India and Brazil. But hey Saddam is dead! None of the backstory makes any sense. There is no motive. All there is is hate.

Unfortunately the hate will never go away. Now the hate has been transferred to Obama and in 2 years it might be Romney. The hate never dies, it just gets passed down to future generations. The conspiracies will never go away. It's not possible for them to go away because we will never ever have the complete story to anything.

I don't think anybody really knows the whole story of what or who was behind the attack,including you or I. I keep an open mind, it is always best, as the extremes on both ends become zealots, as this thread show from the truthers to the anti-truthers. The government does appear to have been completely caught off guard , but an attempt was made in 1993, so they had precedent, at least to watch for something. I am an old-fashioned American, and a lot of changes have occurred in the wake of this one act. More than any in my lifetime. Seemingly more than necessary. And that may be the way it has to be, going into the future. Then again, maybe just chalk it up to "shit happens".

 

[Optional]

What vague purpose?
Its all written and spelled out for you guys who are mentally clear and know it all.

Read about PNAC and there is your motive. False flag operations. How did the US expand the Vietnam war (through a massive lie). 58,000 Americans died there.

I don't portend to know exactly what happened that day, or who knew what.
And yet you do.
And you are so sure.
Must make you feel so good to know everything about what happened that day.

Quote from 377OHMS:

Nonsense.

Anyone who believes the government would kill 3000 of its own citizens for some vague purpose is mentally ill. No other conclusion is possible. We don't care if "it doesn't add up" for you.

Mentally ill people often have trouble adding things up.

 

[Optional]

Excellent counterpoint to your question being answered.

I have answered your question (what is the motive?). And you respond with a cute video to tell me I'm crazy. Well that's mature and inflective of you.
.
What exactly happened and who knew what on 911? Who knows.

Funny thing is that even the 911 falsers (those who believe everything the 911 commission came up with in their dog and pony show investigation) tend to be people who distrust their government. They don't believe anything their government says or does. But on the 911 issue? Forget it. They believe their government is telling them the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. The government couldn't have possibly been complicit or responsible.

PNAC is a crystal clear motive and it was never investigated.

Just read it, see who wrote it, and chalk it up to some more evidence for this horrible day.

By the way - I have a very personal connection to 911, as do many people who believe the government story to the letter. So calling me crazy or un-american, or whatever else, holds no weight. Its just a bullying tactic.

Quote from Maverick74:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tgz5-8chSlk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Optional:



What exactly happened and who knew what on 911? Who knows.

Funny thing is that even the 911 falsers (those who believe everything the 911 commission came up with in their dog and pony show investigation) tend to be people who distrust their government. They don't believe anything their government says or does. But on the 911 issue? Forget it. They believe their government is telling them the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. The government couldn't have possibly been complicit or responsible.

I don't know where you are getting this. I'm sure the government lied about 1000 different things about 9/11 just because 9/11 showcased just how incompetent they are as a government and how weak and vulnerable we are as a country. So no, I don't believe everything the government says about 9/11 or any other issue. This is just pure nonsense. You are grasping for straws.