$73,000 for a 1 night stay in hospital because of a snake bite

I love this:

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:D
 
I need to go into the anti-venom biz. Sheesh!

There is an area in far SW Texas, southern Presidio county, that has the extra dangerous Mojave Rattlesnakes. The wife and I spent a week down there at a resort ranch, and they gave some stern warnings about watching your step.

That place is very remote, and the anti-venom is a few hundred miles away in El Paso, so a helicopter would have to be called in. It happened to one of their guests before. All they said about it was you would be paying for it for the rest of your life.

It pays to stay indoors!
 
Quote from Matt8200:

I have posted many reference read them all.

More case studies:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
High dose Vitamin C (like almost every other "miracle cure" .... Monavie/acai, grape seed extract, fish oil, HGH, MMS, ashwagandha, Vitamin D, colostrum ... this list goes on) is just an anti-inflammatory and immune suppressant .... it makes you FEEL BETTER very quickly. Everybody's got bugs and they love this stuff. If it actually helped your immune system kill bacteria and get rid of the problem, you'd be feeling a lot worse for some time before feeling a lot better.

And no the Vitamin C isn't all tossed by your kidneys. So in a way the conventional docs and the alternative quacks are BOTH wrong :)
 
Vitamin C most important role given in massive doses is to be an oxidizing agent. Do you have any explanation or resources as to your claim that it is just an anti-inflammatory and immune suppressant?

How does it work: as an oxidizing agent massive amounts, i.e., 5-150 grams, intravenously, for certain pathological conditions, if allowed to run in rapidly (20 gauge needle), acts as a “Flash Oxidizer” and may correct the condition in minutes. It can be a reducing agent. It neutralized toxins, viruses and histamine. The more serious the condition, the more C is required.

It appears that Vitamin C acts as a reducing agent, an oxidizing agent, an anti-clotting agent, an antihistamine, and as an anti-infective agent.

He summarized the function of C in poliomyelitis:

1. Virus destruction.
2. Dehydrates the brain and the spinal cord safely.
3. Supports and normalized the stressed adrenal glands.
4. It preserves the lining of the central canal and maintains more regular spacing and less crowding of ependymal cells (surface cells of the spinal cord).

Ascorbic acid enters all cells. It “proceeds to take up the protein coats being manufactured by the virus nucleic acid, thus preventing the assembly of new virus units.” Cells expand, rupture and die, but there is no virus particles available to enter and infect new cells. If a virus has invaded a cell, the Vitamin C contributes to its breakdown to adenosine deaminase, which converts adenosine to inosine. Purines are formed which are catabolized (broken down) and cannot be used to make more virus nucleic acid.

Viral nucleic acid has a protein coat which protects this parasite as it rides the blood or lymph highway to gain specific cell entry. [Larson] it is possible that if the ascorbic acid can remove that protective protein coat in the blood stream or in the cells, the white cell phagocytes and immune globulin could then neutralize these vulnerable virus particles.

I like this from Dr. Klenner: “Ascorbic acid also joins with the available virus protein, making a new macromolecule which acts as the repressor factor.” (interferon?) Multiplication of new virus bodies is inhibited.

He summarizes the study of Lojkin, (1937), who discovered the inactivation of one virus was due to a specific intermediate product formed in the course of the oxidation of C but needed the stimulation of copper ions. It is a peroxide and is decomposed as rapidly as it is formed. This study indicates why Vitamin C works better in the body and not the test tube. Every function of the body requires enzymes, some vitamins and some minerals to act as coenzymes. If enough Vitamin C is supplied, the enzyme system that breaks down invading viruses and bacteria, will be able to do its job properly. Quote: “Unless the white blood cells are saturated with ascorbic acid, they are like soldiers without bullets.”

Vitamin C in vitro at body temperature inactivates certain toxins at an unbelievable rate. Back in 1938 some researchers [Klegler] placed Vitamin C in test tubes with toxins. After incubation for 48 hours the toxins were not lethal to mice when injected. The more toxin in the tube, the faster the C disappears. “The rate of disappearance of the C in toxin and ordinary broth was more striking the greater the concentration of Vitamin C.” Dr. Klenner concluded: “The degree of neutralization in a virus infection will be in proportion to the concentration of the vitamin and the length of time which it is employed.”

This has been Dr. Klenner’s main complaint: failure to benefit from Vitamin C use is usually due to inadequate amounts being used for too short a period of time.

Vitamin C combines directly with the toxin/virus. This new compound is oxidized by Vitamin C; the toxin/virus and the Vitamin C are destroyed. This must be why C has to be continued after the apparent cure.

It acts as a respiratory catalyst, aiding cellular respiration by acting as a hydrogen transport. The liver has a better chance of detoxifying the blood stream of poisons, toxins, viruses and bacteria if the plasma is saturated with Vitamin C. Fever, toxins and bacteria reduce the level of C. Therefore, Dr. Klenner theorizes, if a high level of C is maintained, all tissues return to normal despite the fever and the bacteria; and because of its action “as a respiratory catalyst, it enables the body to build up adequate resistance to the invader.”

The anaerobic condition in the tissue is relieved. Acidity is decreased and large amounts of Adrenaline disappear. The constriction of the blood vessels ceases and the liver and pancreas can receive the proper nutrients to function. Properly calculated doses of C on a continuing basis will restore the normal physiology of the body.

The adrenals and Vitamin C are interrelated. During an infection Vitamin C is absent from the urine and is decreased or absent in blood, even when moderate amounts are being given intravenously. Vitamin C in the adrenal glands was greatly reduced in animals succumbing to polio. (Dr. Klenner cites the literature of 1934-35 to document this.) Hans Selye knew how the adrenals would show damage with stress. He found that all patients ill with a virus would show petechial hemorrhages (small leaks of blood into the skin) when a tourniquet was applied to increase venous backpressure. Capillary weakness is a sign of low levels of Vitamin C. Sugar in the urine, associated with the petechiæ, disappeared when adequate serum levels of Vitamin C were obtained.

It is known the C regulates the intercellular substance of the capillary wall. The collagen of all fibrous tissue structures is dependent on an adequate level of Vitamin C. Increased capillary fragility is observed in individuals when the blood level of C drops to 1 mg per liter. These weak capillary walls may allow a simple virus to invade the brain (see “Insidious Virus”).

In addition, Vitamin C acts as catalyst in the assimilation of iron.

(Ascorbic acid is a necessary coenzyme in the metabolic oxidation of tyrosine. The latter is necessary to break down protein to a usable amino acid.)

Dr. Klenner states, “The importance of Vitamin C as an antibiotic and as the precursor of antibody formation lack scientific appreciation because of its simplicity.” The reluctance of the medical profession to employ it in massive doses like antibiotics has allowed the appearance of allergies as a major problem.

Vitamin C is known to be essential for life. He quotes the studies that show that when Vitamin C is given intravenously to patients with a deficiency, fibroblasts begin to form connective tissue and capillary buds invade blood clots within just a few hours. In a similar time frame when used as an antibiotic, fever falls and the white count climbs.

Dr. Klenner points out that the standard treatment of colds was based on the alkalinizing effect of forcing juices down the patient’s throat. Highly alkaline urine has less Vitamin C. The Vitamin C would be thus retained in the tissues helping to guard against the viruses and bacteria. When Vitamin C levels drop, glycogen in the liver is converted to glucose: a response to stress.

Dr. Klenner is convinced that C will work in any problem but the negative results reported are only because an insufficient amount was used. A tragic error in judgment has been made by the National Academy of Science and the National Research Council: the minimum daily requirement for C. All of us need more; some need a lot more.
 
I will also address Vitamin D. Again this claim is just totally wrong.

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What Makes Vitamin D so Special?

First, it’s important to realize that vitamin D is not “just a vitamin,” but rather the only known substrate for a potent, pleiotropic (meaning it produces multiple effects), repair and maintenance seco-steroid hormone that serves multiple gene-regulatory functions in your body.

As Dr. Heaney so vividly explains here, each cell in your body has its own DNA library that contains information needed to deal with virtually every kind of stimulus it may encounter, and the master key to enter this library is activated vitamin D.

For example, memory ductile cells in the breast need vitamin D to access DNA that enables the response to estrogen.

So naturally, without sufficient amounts of vitamin D, your cells cannot access their DNA libraries and their functions are thereby impaired.

This is why vitamin D functions in so many different tissues, and affects such a large number of different diseases and health conditions. So far, scientists have found about 3,000 genes that are upregulated by vitamin D.

Receptors that respond to the vitamin have been found in almost every type of human cell, from your brain to your bones. And researchers keep finding health benefits from vitamin D in virtually every area they look.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...amin-D--The-Master-Key-to-Optimal-Health.aspx
 
Quote from Matt8200:

Vitamin C most important role given in massive doses is to be an oxidizing agent. Do you have any explanation or resources as to your claim that it is just an anti-inflammatory and immune suppressant?
There are a million studies showing Vitamin C reduces inflammation, which usually correlates with suppressing the immune system. But it appears this is not the case for Vitamin C, so I am wrong on that part. My point, though, is that pretty much every "cure all" is anti-inflammatory, and you gotta ask yourself why.

I don't mean to hijack the thread - I am just really passionate about this, having had no help from the "conventional" wisdom and the "alternative" wisdom for tooooo long!
 
Quote from Matt8200:

I will also address Vitamin D. Again this claim is just totally wrong.
Not wrong. The video is correct, and notice he is talking about "activated D", or 1,25-D.

1,25-D stimulates the immune system, inflammatory
1,25-D signals bones to release calcium
1,25-D downregulates thyroid
1,25-D upregulates adrenals
... and much more

Now regular D is 25-D (what you get in food and supplements)

25-D suppresses the immune system, anti-inflammatory
25-D signals bones to acquire calcium
25-D upregulates thyroid
25-D downregulates adrenals
... and much more

Your body converts easily between 1,25-D and 25-D, and has the job to manage the levels and keep everything in balance. Hence it is a "hormone", acting as the gas and the brakes on all these bodily processes. In chronic illness, you see low "regular D" levels and high 1,25-D, because you body is putting the gas on your immune system.

Your body can regulate how much 25-D it makes from sunlight. But if you supplement 25-D at levels that are hundreds or thousands of times higher than any natural food source, it is like taking a drug that severely overrides your natural balance.
 
Your claim was that Vitamin D and C are only anti-inflammatory and immune suppressants and that they do not "help your immune system kill bacteria and get rid of the problem". I have show clearly that this is not the case.

Like you said Vitamin D-3 is easily converted to activated Vitamin D so it would be rather silly not to include the health benefits from activated Vitamin D when you are talking about supplementing with D-3.

How is it any different to regulate Vitamin D levels orally so that someone's blood levels are the same as someone who exposes their skin to the sun everyday. This does not override the natural balance.

How To Get Enough Vitamin D

There are 3 ways for adults to insure adequate levels of vitamin D:

* regularly receive midday sun exposure in the late spring, summer, and early fall, exposing as much of the skin as possible.
* regularly use a sun bed (avoiding sunburn) during the colder months.
* take 5,000 IU per day for three months, then obtain a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test. Adjust your dosage so that blood levels are between 50–80 ng/mL (or 125–200 nM/L) year-round.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
 
Quote from pspr:

Ah ha ha ha ha. No, in Canada you die before you can get treatment saving the system tens of thousands of dollars.
Canadian life expectancy, along with residents of most western nations with government health services, is on average a few years higher than Americans.

LifeExpectancy2008.gif



Not sure why a discussion on snake bites turned into vitamin C & D. It is fairly inexpensive to make anti-venom antibody in sheep and chickens. The cost is generally a few hundred dollars and could be done by most second year biology majors. The resulting antivenom could be sold for tens of dollars per dose. This is what is done in a country such as India.
 
Quote from tmarket:

Canadian life expectancy, along with residents of most western nations with government health services, is on average a few years higher than Americans.

LifeExpectancy2008.gif





Whats your point? Life expectancy and health care are not correlated. Tired of fricking Canucks showing us a chart of life expectancy trying to show that socialized medicine is better. If it works for you guys great but don't try and tell us to use your system. Quite frankly it sucks, I don't like waiting. My local hospital has more MRI machines than your entire country, but that comes with a price that I am willing to pay.

I do like hockey though. :D
 
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