$52k gone from my IB account. What next, sue IB?
- Thread starter zzzap
- Start date
So you're saying because your anecdotal evidence of your own high volume trading means that IB is fail proof? The fact is that it only proves that YOU haven't had issues, not that this isn't a possibility.
I PERSONALLY have sat DIRECTLY in front of the screen using WEBTRADER and watched as my account FROZE and disconnected me on three occasions this month alone, costing me double digit percentage losses where I had a profit (I personally have never had any IB system failure work in my favor - perhaps others have and I'd bee interested to hear of that). Needless to say, this happened during high volume periods of market turn arounds and I confirmed with 2 other co-workers that both Etrade and Ameritrade accounts were working fine, posting accurate spreads and filling orders. When I called the DIRECT support line (after waiting for about 20 mintues) the FIRST thing the support person said was "Oh I just had someone else call about that, try Webtrader Beta", which subsequently worked - of course after the damage was done (this was also later followed up by "Well bad things happen all the time right?"....). Even in my webticket reply where they denied me any sort of compensation for this they stated that IB had now "fixed the problem" (this happened 2 times in two days a couple of weeks ago - the second time even webtrader beta didnt work and had to sell my position at market via a call to the trade desk - at least I didnt get charged as this was IB's system failure; on the phone, I could hear the phones ringing off the hook and the desk trader told me they were fielding lots of calls - hence the delay). Yet last week, I had a similar problem where the I wasn't disconnected but the bid/ask spread had disappeared and a mkt sell order was NOT getting filled. And these are not thin issues, they are the most heavily traded Index UITs - SPY, DIA, and QQQQ. So tell me, short of having a second brokerage account (which I definitely see the usefulness of for the future - I've paid a bit for this lesson and intend to learn), how were these failures anything but IB's (and admittedly so)?
Look, I'm not an IB basher. I LOVED IB when I started trading 6 months ago. SMART has good pricing, executes really fast, provides better spreads, and is easy to use. I don't have access to TWS where I work, but Webtrader was sufficient for me as all I required was real-time quotes from SMART and order filling (Ameritrade provided all I needed as a charting too). However, after being shafted out of so much money so many times in the past few weeks, forced to take losses where I had gains due SOLELY to a HUGE delay in CLOSING positions, I've grown tired and plan on moving on. But I promise you that if you are unfortunate enough to get caught in one of these system failures and don't have another brokerage account with enough liquidity to "offset" your trade entirely (which mind you will end up adding quite a bit to your cost basis), you will take a BIG loss. And in the end, IB will basically say "Screw you, you agree to the stipulation that we don't provide constant service and execution and you agreed to have an offset account in lieu of this when you joined, so your loss." Now maybe its different if you trade millions of units each month with them, but I'm not in that game.
P.S. I also know a thing or two about trading. I worked as a prop trader and currently work for a very large bank as a developer for a fairly large fund trading system, so I've had my fair exposure to playing the market - both the risks and rewards.
Just thought I'd mention that perhaps the problem is with WebTrader specifically, because I have not had any outages at all this month using TWS. In fact I have not had TWS fail in a considerable period of time. I did have my internet connection go down on me a while back when I had a crude oil trade on. Because of this experience, I added DSL as a back up to cable. I also bought a smartphone in case both connections went down, so that I could connect via MobileTrader.
By the way, that crude oil trade worked in my favor. Stop and think about it....if you're trading in line with the trend the odds are in your favor. I'm not generally picking tops and bottoms. If you're countertrend trading, or trading extremely short term, then these are issues for you with respect to losing connection.
OldTrader
Mobile trader failed as well. This was the day that QQQQ started selling off dramatically from the top (about 2 weeks ago) with no news. I was with the trend, I was long, and I had a 15% net profit. I only wanted to close and by the time I got through to the trading desk and sold out, I was down 10%. Yes, I use leverage. And yes I don't hold a position if there's a profit and I see a massive sell off in my face. Perhaps it was localized to webtrader, webtrader beta, mobile trader, and a 20 minute wait on the line before I got through to the trading desk. Maybe the desk trader was lying when he said they had a ton of calls coming in and couldn't answer my questions as to why the system failed. And maybe they didn't charge me $30 for the trade because IB felt generous. And maybe I misunderstood the webticket reply that said the problem was fixed (confirming that a problem DID exist).
Believe whatever you want. If you fit into the square peg of a long term trend trader with diversification and partner offset accounts at other brokerages, IB is perfect for you. But ask yourself this: I've heard people say that this users trading was reckless, but tell me now, knowing the significant number of posts here about IB's problems, wouldn't it be reckless to assume IB will never fail you?
Like I said, I was a huge IB fan (in fact, I brought over 3 others) up until the point that their failures started costing me money. It's hard enough to make money trading index options while maintaining a full time job so I don't need my broker creating any more obstacles to this effect.
ZZZap,
From your intitial post I like to ask the following: You mentioned you had the computer running and where logged into TWS when you left your home. YOu said the log shows that someone/something signed you out of TWS and re-connected. Now, you also said that you use the security device. NEXT: Did you ask TWS to provide you with a proof that in fact your security device was used to log into TWS? If IB can prove that then whether its your fault or not you will NEVER recoup your lost funds. The point is, if IB can show that your security token was used to log into TWS during your absence then someone must have used it or they assume you lied to them and made up a story (I dont but they may). If IB CANNOT show that your token has been used then you should have almost a 100% chance to get your funds back, through IB directly or the court system.
I dont understand what is so complicated about this and why it takes 15 threads to discuss this (sorry if someone has mentioned this before as I simply dont have the time to read through all this just wanted to help.) If IB or your log shows that you re-connected throught he regular way into TWS (meaning by usage of your security token) then whatever may have happened then FAULT LIES ON YOUR SIDE. Who cares whether your automated system fuxxed up or you had an order in place or whatever. It maye be true it may not be, fact is from a legal standpoint you wont get your money back. Same thing with credit cards, if it can be shown that you were at the place of a credit card purchase, the pin code was used that matches with the card, then why should the credit card company care whether you or the person who used your pin code (either you told that person or were negligent about your pin) purchased something or whether you regretted having made the purchase or were simply drunk or whatever. Hope you get my point.
Sorry to hear about the loss but I feel the matter can be settled very easily with my above suggestion. So, check into this and if your log does not provide info of whether your token has been used then ask IB to provide you with such proof.
