5 days before the election- Jobs report

How many here have bought an Asian produced automobile, television, cell phone, camera, suit ect.....

And you bought them because they were less expensive, eh?

But you never look in the MIRROR and see YOURSELF as an exporter of both jobs and capital.

I just LOVE when someone driving a Lexus argues against outsourcing. Duplicitous fuckheads......
Quote from libertad:

Excellent Commentary All
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Thus what one must do is to locate the so called gains that globalization produces...

That is ...where are they...who receives them..

Or is it the case whereby there are no gains..and that wealth is simply transferred somewhere else...
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Lets say an American in 2006 normally buys $100 in gasoline per month....and an Indian in 2006 normally buys $20 per month...

IBM consults the American Firm to transfer to India...the displaced American now buys $50 in gasoline per month ...and the Indian buys $50 in gasoline per month...One loses one wins..


Thus what has globalization offered the American ?

How does this American benefit from globalization ?

Is this a case whereby government has adopted unrealistic textbook theory that is not applicable or sensible in the real world ?

Then is globalization a good thing or a bad thing ?
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Now if the American owned the stock of his company...and the stock doubled...ok he would gain on the stock...but it is unlikely that he could cover income lost......
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Thus my argument for capitalism is that a company is worth far more when it is publicly traded than it is when it is private...and can help to cover previous workers losses because he has a vested interest in the company that is commensurate with his participation...encouraging good work etc...

Thus I believe that the consolidation of the exchanges...and having all worthwhile sizable companies go public....will be the single most important key which will validate the concept of globalization being a positive event...

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This is basically what Goldman Sachs does anyway...it locates business prospects and nurtures the relationships such that capitalization can take place...

Globalization is a formal acceptance of the approach by other governments which can smooth out the legal obstacles....
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Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

How many here have bought an Asian produced automobile, television, cell phone, camera, suit ect.....And you bought them because they were less expensive, eh?But you never look in the MIRROR and see YOURSELF as an exporter of both jobs and capital.
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That's actually absolutely correct. When we buy foreign goods we export american jobs, it is as simple as that. You think you saved money when you bought your China-made cell-phone, you kinda did but you also got your Motorolla employed neighbor laid-off. You lose your job tomorrow and you think it has nothing to do with your cell-phone purchase, think again, it's your unemployed neighbor who could not afford to buy furniture that your company is manufacturing (or bought cheaper chinese made furniture). Now you're both unemployed but on the positive side you both saved 20 bucks. It's a race to the bottom, pure and simple, it cannot be solved individually unless you can get the whole country to boycott foreign goods and services. A brand new set of economic policies is needed to break this vicious cycle.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

How many here have bought an Asian produced automobile, television, cell phone, camera, suit ect.....

And you bought them because they were less expensive, eh?
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Actually, I bought the Asian car because it was a better car. That ain't the point! I'm not argueing against capitalism, or even globalization to a point. What I'm argueing is that I have a problem taking wage and benefit cuts while some fuck at the top makes a 7-8 figure income. While I can accept that non producing owners will always make more than producing non owners(hows that for a Marxist statement) the wealth must be distributed in such a fashion to at least give the appearance of fair pay for labor. Those that do the actual producing must, at the very least, have the illusion of the opportunity for prosperity.
 
Quote from dddooo:

That's actually absolutely correct. When we buy foreign goods we export american jobs, it is as simple as that. You think you saved money when you bought your China-made cell-phone, you kinda did but you also got your Motorolla employed neighbor laid-off. You lose your job tomorrow and you think it has nothing to do with your cell-phone purchase, think again, it's your unemployed neighbor who could not afford to buy furniture that your company is manufacturing (or bought cheaper chinese made furniture). Now you're both unemployed but on the positive side you both saved 20 bucks. It's a race to the bottom, pure and simple, it cannot be solved individually unless you can get the whole country to boycott foreign goods and services. A brand new set of economic policies is needed to break this vicious cycle.
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Vicious cycle? What, someone wanting to pay LESS for a similar quality product? Man, I hope you don't really believe that. It makes no sense for anyone to pay more for something. That's why the capitalist system actually works better than you would expect. Efficiency gets rewarded. This isn't just happening in the US, it's happening all over. A few years ago I read an article about woodworking machinery made overseas. The article explained how many manufacturers built plants in Taiwan. Now, those same co's are building plants in mainland China. Why? Because the wages are ONE TENTH what they are in Taiwan.
 
Quote from Arnie:[/B]
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What, someone wanting to pay LESS for a similar quality product?
Everyone does not just want to pay less, would not that be wonderful if we could get everything for free, you can't pay less than free, can you? The problem is if we were all getting everything for free as we want nobody would be able to make a dime, just like if everyone is paying less - everyone is also making less. This is the side effect we probably don't want but that's exactly how it works.

Let me tell you something, I don't want to pay 10% less for a similar quality product if that means my next job will pay 20% less, unfortunately that's exactly what happens today. I would much prefer to pay 10% more and get a 15% raise. This is how good economy, the kind of economy that benefits everyone (not just top 5%) is supposed to work. I realize that 90% of the public don't understand that but the government and economists certainly should.

Efficiency gets rewarded.
Exactly. Too bad that CHEAP LABOR that we're discussing has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency. Otherwise according to your logic slavery would be the most efficient economic approach. Making goods and services cheaper due to efficiency is great, making them cheaper due to paying lower and lower wages to working people means these working people (90% of this country) are getting poorer. For whatever reason some people believe that Bill Gates is not making enough money and that working people getting poorer is a good thing.
 
Why are you so hung up on labor? That's just one aspect of what something sells for. Inorder for your scenario to come true you would need someone manipulating the economy and that doesn't work for long. With your logic, we would still be subsidizing buggy whip makers. Instead, they went from making buggy whips to making the interiors of cars.
 
There is no doubt that China's only edge on American workers is cheap labor. Its not efficiency. They have no workers rights, no social safety nets. Border line slave labor.
 
Maverick
All your posts are always very insightful.
As I understand Americans feel poorer now than 10 or 20 years ago because the whole world is getting more prosperous and catching up to us. Our sense of wealth used to come from a big gap between our prosperity and lack of prosperity in other countries. Now, this gap is getting narrower and that makes us feel poorer in comparison.
Are we really poorer? With households spending money on a phone, three cell phones, three TVs with cable and HBO, three computers, DVD players, iPods, two cars, eating out regularly, college educating kids, going on vacation our standard of living is much higher than 10 and more years ago. If things were as bad as people say, we would not buy those things, and we would see people depending more on government assistance. If I do not have money I limit my expenses, and if spend on credit, there will be the limit to this credit.
Despite housing bubble letting some air out, I do not see collapse in home ownership. Letting air out is good because it will shake the weak hands out.
Just the fact that housing boom encouraged some very risky and speculative endeavors indicate that things are not as bad as they seem. People do not take risks and speculate when economy is bad. When money is not coming in people just try to survive, and they do not think about making a killing.
However, I think for prosperity to continue we need people to think that times are bad and that they are struggling, because as the stock market climbs the wall of worry, so does the economy, IMHO.
 
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