Quote from jonnysharp:
do you think Bush could tell America in blunt terms why they are going there, they need to hear fear, so give em fear.
Thats wrong on so many levels.
The American public isn't stupid, they've just been buffaloed into political apathy.
The myriad of Government legislation, legal red tape coupled with nonstop spin and deceptive politics have turned everyone OFF politics.
People actually care and if presented with an opportunity for an earnest two-way dialogue where their opinions could actually be heard, validated and responded to with DIRECT, appropriate answers - not this spin doctoring, advance-at-all-costs bullshit - people would LOVE to sit down and engage in a constructive, national debate .
If Bush came to the country and said "Look, we need energy bad. We're not clamoring yet, but in the next couple decades we're gonna need it or this country could be in some serious financial trouble. Saddams a fuck, we dont have much but he's got a history. We want to go in, put in a US-friendly democracy that'll secure our energy needs for the foreseeable short term while liberating Iraqis from a ruthless dictator. Win win."
Most rationale people, when presented with those facts, would likely agree - assuming causalities on both sides are kept to a minimum.
But the more astute would say, "If this is all about energy, then lets get the fuck off oil so we dont need to finance these HUGELY costly military incursions, invasions and occupations to begin with!!"
And theres the rub. People would ultimately catch on this is all about energy and force big oil/defenses hand.
How about free energy? fuck that. No way. We need to keep this nation hopelessly addicted to big oil and war because thats whats best for Americas two most powerful special interest groups.
So politicians lie and connive and cheat and spin knowing they'll get financed out of office real quick if they chose to take on the juggernauts and be a real leader of the people and for the people.
Its rigged. We're in a positive feedback loop now. Politicians are whores who lack a single moral shred of decency or bravery in their body to actually stand up and do the right thing.
Quote from jonnysharp:
do you stop for a moment, and think that some vets are willing to give up part of their pocket money to the young men and women serving the country? or is loyalty and patriosm something you do not understand or believe in?
What are you talking about???
I said its GOVERNMENT whose screwing the vets. Not the vets screwing each other.
And if you think its acceptable for vets to rely on charity to get the treatment they need after paying the ultimate price, you're dead wrong.
Most tax payers would gladly foot the bill for wounded vets. Yet, its the Government whose fucking these veterans out their rightfully owed healthcare.
Why? Because Bush is a scumbag.
Quote from jonnysharp:
The cost of the war? how can you put a cost on America's future wellbeing? America is rich and they use this to their advantage.
Because you're whole argument is flawed to begin with.
If money is no object when securing Americas future vitality, then that money would BEST be spent on developing DIRT CHEAP ENERGY -- and not on some fools errand in Iraq that most people on the inside KNEW was a mess to begin with.
Other than fiscal considerations, war generates huge HUMAN causlaties on BOTH sides, has emboldened more terrorists then its killed (pentagon report) and created a massive drain on this countries economy to prop up a nation whose teetering on civil war.
Quagmire.
With huge sums of cash spinning its wheels in the form of idle troops, fuel and arms accomplishing nothing..
Money could have been spent MUCH BETTER elsewhere.
Quote from jonnysharp:
whenever the government or a corporation does something in its own interest, which believe it or not, is usually in the best interests of the country -> people start whining about how their rigging things in their favor -> well DER!
Your statement is true for only those industries which cannot amass sufficient wealth in concentrated hands to elicit a perceptible change in Government by Corporate bribes (read: special interest).
This is what is meant by the 'military-industrial-complex' --- HUGE industries controlled by a few players that generate MASSIVE wealth compared to their industrial counterparts.
You would be well versed to go find out EXACTLY what Eisenhower meant. When you do, you will understand why Big Oil, defense and banking run this country into the fucking ground.
They have inordinate wealth to spend. So they spend it on politicians to 1) rewrite laws in their favor and 2) engage in extradomestic activity which ultimately pours dollars into their coffers (war and plunder).
Quote from jonnysharp:
the USA government acts in its own interest believe or not
What interest is that? The peoples interest in general - giving us skyrocketing tax rates, declining social services, and an ever depreciating dollar, terrible education and a judiciary that rules against citizens rights in favor of states rights on a regular basis???
Or the Government increasingly acts in its OWN best interests and those of the corporate machine that feed it - at the expense of average citizen? Yep.
Quote from jonnysharp:
and the more fit they are the more fit the citizen is.
You've got it backwards. The more attuned citizens are to their Government, the more healthy that Government is. And therefore, the citizens.
Unchecked Government doesn't fix problems. It creates them.
This is exactly what the founders taught us and designed the Constitution to thwart.
ho hum.