46.3 million Americans without health insurance

Quote from piezoe:

You've missed the point entirely. The reason medical delivery in the US must be overhauled is not because there are people without insurance, it's because the current rate of medical care cost increases cannot be sustained! Bringing more people under insurance coverage is just one of the many necessary changes that is needed to control future costs and keep care affordable for the maximum number of people.

The current "system" is unsustainable. There is no choice but to change it drastically and the sooner the better. Obama understands this. You do not.

One can argue that the proposed changes are not the right ones, but to argue that no, or very little, change is needed suggests you are completely out of touch with reality.
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How does putting 300 million Americans on the government health care single payer system gonna control costs?

Is it going to be how medicare works? Short change hospitals on certain procedures, only to charge the guy with health care double the amount to cover the cost of medicare patients. Ration care.

They have been saying health care is unsustainable for at least 20 years. I am not saying we need to lower costs but government control of health care is ludicrous.
 
how many of those get free "health care" from the government now anyway?
Every little town around here has atleast one free clinic
 
So 8 pages of comments, and not a single one about the need for tort reform in this country? Malpractice insurance is quite expensive, and for sure doctors order potentially unnecessary tests just so that they could have some CYA protection in the event of a lawsuit.

One other note to the guys from NY bitching about the price of healtcare. The way NY has their regulations setup people of all ages pay virtually the same premium for the same coverage and there is an ENORMOUS list of mandatory things that a plan must cover, so if you are younger you have no option of choosing a less expensive plan.

The scary thing about the gov't plan is the "pay or play". If you choose to cover employees, you have to cover 100% of them. I work for a German company with about 250,000 employees, and we average a cost of $7,500 per person. So the math is simple, if 8% of your payroll is less than $7,500 per person, you simply drop your health coverage (which I was promised I could keep if I like it, assuming that my employer still wants to offer it) for all your employees, next thing you know we are all in the gubmint plan. Total Bullshit.
 
Quote from tradefreak:

u can get unicare or bluecross in Texas for a family of 4 for $240 a month with 1K deductible - that's what i pay...and when i was single it was under $100.00 a month - u can't go to the doc everytime you get a cough, but if u get hit by a mack truck your covered:)
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what. something isnt right. i just ran a blue cross quote for 30year old parents in texas with 2 9 year old children. here is the result:
PPO Select Choice (I-VIII)
Best Seller!
Network: BlueChoice or BlueCard Preferred Provider OrganizationLifetime Benefit: $5 Million
Office Visit Co-pay: $25Out-of-pocket Limit: Deductible plus $6,000Deductible Rx Drug Coverage Monthly Premium
80% Coverage
1 0 $250 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $1061.50
0 0 $250 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $942.00
1 0 $500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $916.50
0 0 $500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $797.00
1 0 $1,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $763.50
0 0 $1,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $644.00
1 0 $1,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $662.50
0 0 $1,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $543.00
 
The point is I'm a capitalist, a believer in free markets and you're a socialist.

You believe that a government that pays it's employee's 75% pensions, a government that is hopelessly insolvent from administrating Social Security and Medicare, a government whose lack of oversight has brought Freddie, Fannie and perhaps even the FDIC to the brink, a government who can't even run simple business like Amtrak and mail delivery can effectively serve as the ultimate arbitor of what medicine should cost.I don't.

Blue Cross has a hell of lot more vested interest in controlling costs-it's own internal costs as well as claims-than does the unaccountable, piss poor history of efficiency, Federal government.

If you were deep enough to understand my post you'd understand my thesis. Individually American's PAY TOO LITTLE FOR HEALTH CARE and DON'T FISCALLY PRIORITIZE IT'S IMPORTANCE

Someone here is freaking at a puny $500 a month insurance premium covering FOUR PEOPLE. What's $125 a month? IMO health insurance should equal a mortgage payment. And that's where we're going.

National Health will never pay for an old guy to have surgery that'll cost a fortune and only give him an actuarial few more years of living. I'll tell you right now what the gig will be.

Patient: I need a new kidney or I'm toast.

Death Panel: You're a 75 year old diabetic who isn't working. Neither that kidney, nor you, is worth $800,000 to our system. No can do.

Patient: Is there anything I can do.

Death Panel: Maybe we can outsource you to Delhi Dialysis. The procedure can be done there for $68,000. OR if you want it done here, you can sign over your assets. Upon death they're ours.

Think about it. Do you think Big Brother is going to save your geriatric ass for free and then allow your kids to receive an estate? Not gonna happen. Somebody is going to get paid. Insurance is zero sum. Everyone wants unlimited coverage at the same price they pay for summer electricity. It's over.Insurance is mis-priced-unless you don't care about when you die.





Quote from piezoe:

Pab(s)t, you never cease to amaze with your ad hominen arguments -- short on logic and completely missing the point.

One would hope you are a much better trader than Devil's advocate.
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We might both be capitalists, but one of us believes that the only way capitalism can flourish is in an atmosphere of free competition, whereas the other apparently does not object to the occasional cartel so long as a buck can be made.
 
Anyone who likes can enter the insurance biz.....

Quote from piezoe:

We might both be capitalists, but one of us believes that the only way capitalism can flourish is in an atmosphere of free competition, whereas the other apparently does not object to the occasional cartel so long as a buck can be made.
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1. The larger the risk pool, the cheaper the cost.
2. See one.

That's the whole thing, and the reason why reform is needed, for two things, both of which will at minimum be in whatever is passed, and something will be passed:

1. No one gets dropped for pre-existing conditions.
2. Everyone has to be in it.

Why? See the top of this post.
That's all there is to it. The rest is smoke-blowing and hand-waving by ideologues and paid prostitutes of the insurance companies.
Every other advanced country in the world

1. ...doesn't drop anyone for pre-existing conditions, and
2. ...makes sure everyone has to be in it.

Why?
Because

1. The larger the risk pool, the cheaper the cost.
2. See one.

I hope that's clear.
 
The insurance and drug companies have been donating millions to the coffers of the swift-boat party.

There is a reason Americans gave Obama a land slide victory and a super majority in congress.

The American people are tired of the no-solution nonsensical swift-boat party. Obama was given a mandate to steam roll over these unamerican imbeciles.

Obama has proven to be a weak leader. We need a independent third party lead by someone with a backbone to get anything done.



Quote from trefoil:

1. The larger the risk pool, the cheaper the cost.
2. See one.

That's the whole thing, and the reason why reform is needed, for two things, both of which will at minimum be in whatever is passed, and something will be passed:

1. No one gets dropped for pre-existing conditions.
2. Everyone has to be in it.

Why? See the top of this post.
That's all there is to it. The rest is smoke-blowing and hand-waving by ideologues and paid prostitutes of the insurance companies.
Every other advanced country in the world

1. ...doesn't drop anyone for pre-existing conditions, and
2. ...makes sure everyone has to be in it.

Why?
Because

1. The larger the risk pool, the cheaper the cost.
2. See one.

I hope that's clear.
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