1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

[bjw]

Quote from tomdavis:

Do you know the procedure to force the EU/EZ FTT to a vote?

to be honest, i don't think there is one unless all countries (in reality: the big three) agree there should be a binding vote. also, i'm thinking probably the european commission can propose a final draft (all they have done so far is introduce preliminary drafts, so it's not surprising there has not been a binding vote on a non-binding proposal), which would then need a final vote.
the uk in november 2011 already proposed a final vote on the ftt as a principle (they said to prevent the EC from spending more time & resources on something that didn't even have a majority-backing), but germany/france/ec weren't with them then and it didn't happen. i really think the ball is in the ec's court on this one; and they'll probably come up with an adjusted, and hopefully final, draft in march.

the country that coincedentally (now denmark) has presidency that term is able to put some things on the agenda that otherwise might not have been on, but that's about were the power ends.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Explorer:

[Finnish PM] Katainen echoed the view of German and Italian leaders by saying he wants a financial transaction tax to be applied to the entire Europe Union, not just the 17 euro zone countries.

"It should cover the whole of Europe. From the Finnish point of view, if Sweden is outside, it would have a negative impact for the development of Finland's financial markets and economy."

http://www.4-traders.com/news/PM-says-Finland-must-join-ESM-bailout-fund--13967390/

This is what I thought Katainen's position was all along. He was the finance minister before becoming PM - voted best in Europe - and is very respected by business people in Finland. I like him too. I have a summer vacation each year in Finland. Finns won't do something stupid business-wise to give an opening to the Swedes to eat their lunch. No way no how!

When someone says EU-wide, its a death Nell and like saying global warming must be worldwide. It's an out for now. Take Finland off the 9-minimum list for euro zone passage by a group within the euro zone.

If I recall, the new Finnish finance minister has already been tarred by the media for saying foolish things about Greece and she was not very qualified for the job. Go by Katainen and no one else. He has the power too.

Finns also won't accept 85% majority voting in the EU in the future either, they want a minority blocking. Most Finns like Germans are very unhappy about bailing out PIIGS and they think Greece cheated on joining the euro and more. Remember, they were ready to block the bailouts over insisting on collateral.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from tomdavis:

Finland is like Luxembourg where the PM and FM are making completely different public statements.

In Luxembourg, the Prime Minister is anxious to have the EZ-only FTT and the Finance Minister speaks against it. Finland is the opposite. The PM is against the EZ-only FTT and FM in favor. You would think that the PM and FM would confer before making public statements -- apparently not.

In Finland, as I just posted, listen to the PM who out ranks the FM. The PM was the respected FM before becoming PM in June 2011. The current FM is considered under qualified and she has already gotten into trouble for making inappropriate statements as I recall.

The PM has the power for several years to come and he will use it.

Widely-conflicting statements, starts, stops, political intrigue all indicate that FTT is on the battle lines of a tug of tax and other war between Socialists versus Free-Market parties in Europe.

In France, politicians can boast about change in grandeur terms without scaring business to much. They have been sufficiently scared off the past half a century already. But in Germany and elsewhere, business is highly competitive and sensitive to interruption. The media may bash bankers, but Germany probably won't throw banking under the bus. We shall see.

The left media attacks banking in the U.S. and Dodd-Frank was passed, but FTT has no chance and even the President's bank levy got no where. If and when the tax gets closer, expects the lawyers to get involved and to fight it off too.

The Germany bank levy from 2010 got mired down too right?

 

[Explorer]

Quote from tomdavis:

That's a key question. The other question is whether there's a procedure for another country, or group of countries (e.g., UK, Sweden, Malta, etc.) to force a vote.

A defeat in Europe won't make the FTT go away, but it could shift the momentum for a while.

From wiki the presidency does indeed have agenda setting powers, although it doesn't describe well what they are. It doesn't seem plausible to me that there isn't some formal procedure for vote timetabling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_European_Union :

The role of the Presidency is administrative and political. On the administrative side it is responsible for procedures and organising the work of the Council during its term. This includes summoning the Council for meetings along with directing the work of COREPER and other committees and working groups. The political element is the role of successfully dealing with issues and mediating in the Council. In particular this includes setting the agenda of the council, hence giving the Presidency substantial influence in the work of the Council during its term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_the_Council_of_the_European_Union :

The role of the rotating Council Presidency includes:

agenda-setting powers: in its 6-month programme, it decides on the order to discuss propositions, after they have been submitted by the Commission in its agenda monopoly powers;

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Stok:

Wow. That will destroy any financial district in France. Socialists are taking over the world while all their policies are failures and historically proven failures. WTF is wrong with these people??

Stop the Socialist Tax which will feed the socialists agenda. That should be our new rally cry.

 

[sculptor66]

Quote from Stok:

Welp, say buh bye to financial firms in France. They will be leaving in droves I would assume. I can't believe they are going to tax from .50% up to 3% per trade!! What a fucking disaster!! Only the French can fuck up this bad.

Actually, if these numbers are for real, say bye bye to France AND Europe.

Such a high tax rate would most likely cause the immediate collapse of the French bond market, including the market for government bonds.

A French default and a following meltdown of the whole continent would then be almost inevitable.

Is Sarkozy really that crazy that he would risk all-out chaos across Europe just to win an election?

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from slumdog:

French General election in a few months, and Sarko is behind in the polls. The guy is obviously desperate, will promise anything to get in again for his final term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2012

Ex-UK-PM Gordon Brown first talked up FTT for the G-20, as he was desperately behind the Tory Cameron in the polls. Cameron had to accept the one-time banker-bonus tax to allay the pitchfork-bank bashers.

Yes, I have said all along what Tom indicates above, that Sarkozy and Merkel had to talk FTT to fight off the socialists and win re-election, but they would never pass it. They owed a full court press for it and knew the UK would block it EU-wide. So they are going through the motions and hopefully don't have to do something stupid before the election.

Merkel can't dump the FDP for the socialists, that's the biggest flip flop ever, from an American's point of view.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from bjw:

to be honest, i don't think there is one unless all countries (in reality: the big three) agree there should be a binding vote. also, i'm thinking probably the european commission can propose a final draft (all they have done so far is introduce preliminary drafts, so it's not surprising there has not been a binding vote on a non-binding proposal), which would then need a final vote.
the uk in november 2011 already proposed a final vote on the ftt as a principle (they said to prevent the EC from spending more time & resources on something that didn't even have a majority-backing), but germany/france/ec weren't with them then and it didn't happen. i really think the ball is in the ec's court on this one; and they'll probably come up with an adjusted, and hopefully final, draft in march.

the country that coincedentally (now denmark) has presidency that term is able to put some things on the agenda that otherwise might not have been on, but that's about were the power ends.

The EU in Brussels wants to keep FTT on the table as the first EU-wide fiscal-union tax, to show future revenues and glue for their crumbling union - to keep it together. They do probably need an EU tax, but no country wants to raise income taxes more. So FTT is their pipe dream for another agenda, besides bank and trading interruption efforts. The EU monster government in Brussels is hungry for tax monies to pay their own salaries and benefits.

 

[Robert A. Green]

Quote from Explorer:

From wiki the presidency does indeed have agenda setting powers, although it doesn't describe well what they are. It doesn't seem plausible to me that there isn't some formal procedure for vote timetabling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_European_Union :

The role of the Presidency is administrative and political. On the administrative side it is responsible for procedures and organising the work of the Council during its term. This includes summoning the Council for meetings along with directing the work of COREPER and other committees and working groups. The political element is the role of successfully dealing with issues and mediating in the Council. In particular this includes setting the agenda of the council, hence giving the Presidency substantial influence in the work of the Council during its term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_the_Council_of_the_European_Union :

The role of the rotating Council Presidency includes:

agenda-setting powers: in its 6-month programme, it decides on the order to discuss propositions, after they have been submitted by the Commission in its agenda monopoly powers;

FTT gathered steam and the threat grew under the recent EU presidency held by France with Sarkozy. Hopefully the Danes can be in charge as it's put out to pasture.

Okay, I'll cool the posts for a while, too many, sorry. Things are a little hectic on our FTT front at the moment.

 

[tortoise]

Quote from Robert A. Green:

Stop the Socialist Tax which will feed the socialists agenda. That should be our new rally cry.

Robert, I thought you really nailed it a couple of months ago in an impassioned post about this "mean" tax--how it would destroy jobs, etc. It was a beaut. And it really reflected, I thought, the zeitgeist.

These are weird times in which someone like Newt Gingrich thinks he can make political hay attacking, as Romney puts it, "free enterprise." Whatever one's opinion of Gingrich the Man, let me tell you, Gingrich the Pol is one clever fellow--and a far more experienced politician than Romney.

I think Gingrich may be onto something. As I think you were in that post--which, to my ears, just SANG.

In any event, I'll send you a PM later with more thoughts. Thanks again for your marvelous work. We all owe you...