1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

European Financial-Transaction Tax: ‘Loch Ness Monster’ Likely Disappearing Again: WSJ
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012...-loch-ness-monster-likely-disappearing-again/
Think I noticed this link on the thread earlier, it’s a good article. I just added this Comment, #2.

FTT is really a Socialist Tax. Sarkozy and Merkel are both center-right politicians fighting off Socialist opposition in their upcoming re-elections. To close the poll gap, as they are behind, they are both talking up FTT to appease bank-basher independent voters, and win over some of the Socialist vote too. FTT should be relabeled the Socialist Tax, as it’s not a Wall Street Tax, with banks evading it and retail investors, hedgers and pensioners paying it. It’s also not a Robin Hood Tax, as it steals from Main Street investors to line the pockets of big-spenders in government – in other words socialists.

Merkel is very wrong; a FTT won’t “tame financial markets.” Rather, FTT will drop as an exploding extra-territorial-reach-tax bomb on London - Chicago, New York City, and other money-centers – that will cause great havoc, and tip Europe into severe-structural recession. Why promote and advertise raising taxes like FTT, as Europe enters another recession, and while the EU and euro zone struggle to survive?

Merkel is also wrong to project FTT tax revenues for anemic government budgets. Europe will lose tax revenues, as financial-service industries and jobs flea to non-FTT tax centers like London, New York, Geneva and Asia. FTT revenues will be a tiny fraction of projections, while income and capital gains taxes - the tax already on financial transactions –drop off drastically.

Monti is right about Tobin. His FTT concoction sounded good on a napkin, but he later realized it would be a disaster in practice, so Tobin abandoned his own idea. It’s Freakonomics 101, governments interfere with free markets trying to control them, and their disincentives cause the opposite effect from what they hoped.

Speculators and hedge funds are good. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, hedge funds are the ones speculating on purchasing PIIGS and French debt the past few weeks. Speculators buy when governments and banks want to sell, so don’t put them out of business overnight with FTT. If that isn’t socially useful, then explain to me how drinking $200 French wine, eating expensive cheese and wearing luxury apparel are more socially useful than speculators helping to save Europe.
 
Quote from Robert A. Green:

European Financial-Transaction Tax: ‘Loch Ness Monster’ Likely Disappearing Again: WSJ
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012...-loch-ness-monster-likely-disappearing-again/
Think I noticed this link on the thread earlier, it’s a good article. I just added this Comment, #2.

Believe it or not, but i just wanted to post that article :D

Because this quote is so funny and so true (Monti on James Tobin):

When asked about his position on the tax, Monti wistfully recalled his time as a student of Tobin’s at Yale University. He said Tobin used to laugh at his own idea, describing it as the “Loch Ness monster” sporadically rearing its head in public debate and then submerging again.

Hopefully it will also be true this time. Or better: It's time to kill that stupid beast ;)
 
Quote from Robert A. Green:

Great idea Tortoise and like your line of reasoning. The pro-FTT people keep saying that financial transactions have skirted the tax man and they should be taxed like VAT or sales taxes. Why tax milk but not stocks etc. So good to tackle this clearly and take away this argument. Keep pressing here, thanks for your great work on FTT too!

Financial transactions are taxed based on the amount of profit one makes from the activity.

Milk is taxed at time of purchase, financial transactions are taxed at the time the transaction is closed. Both are taxed, just at different times.

The tax rate of capital gains exceeds by multiples the tax on milk.

Tell the pro-FTT people that the tax on financial profits already greatly exceeds that of a sales tax.
 
They made a poll yesterday in France. Most french( 53% )don't want to tax transactions alone without the rest of Europe. Most opponents are socialist voters...LOL
 
Quote from tortoise:

Y'know, I wonder if there's any traction to be had in explaining to people why a tax on financial transactions is NOT analogous to a tax on, say, toothpaste.

Rightly or wrongly, goods and services are taxes at the retail level. They are not taxed on the wholesale level, because acquire goods with intention of reselling at a profit, which is then taxed.

In a sense, the government taxes utility. In the case of a consumer, that utility is taxed at the point of purchase. In the case of a retailer (or business), that utility is taxed at the point of profit.

That is why financial transactions are not taxed. There is not utility to the parties in the transactions themselves, only in the intended profit, which is taxed, if realized.

So the question is not "Why does the tax code treat financial transactions treated differently from all other transactions?" Because IT DOESN'T.

The question real is, "Why single out financial transactions for double taxation."

Thoughts, anyone?

Money in your pocket, capital, life savings, retirement account, is not a good or service. Tax it upon its transfer from one form of capital or use to another? Absurd to tax the exchange of small cap for mid cap, moving money from one account or purpose to another. It is equal to exchanging a hundred dollar bill for five twenties. The government gets a cut of that?

Some people actually like to prepare for the future and save money. It's also nice to have those savings maintain value. How is that possible? Short-term transactions if there are profits are taxed at nearly 50 percent. Real inflation consumes maybe 3 or 4 percent. If one were to double their money in ten years- government gets nearly half, inflation gets nearly half. An increase in value should not be taxed either as we can't deduct the loss of inflation eroding the value.

Annual cost of EU FTT: money market 7.82 percent, equity 2.57 percent. "Moreover, Joanna Cound, managing director, government affairs and public policy at BlackRock, argues these costs are “the tip of the iceberg”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/54e1aab8-25a9-11e1-856e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1jLVRc4gG

"It's extraordinary that there should still be tax relief on debt, but when you buy shares in a company ... you are taxed four times – corporation tax, dividend tax, share-trading tax and personal tax." LSE chairman, Chris Gibson-Smith
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...res/where-has-all-the-money-gone-2377675.html

Sweden's FTT: Evidence and reality mean nothing to those, criminals really, that want other people's money. Bank robbers and burglars also rationalize their actions.
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

They made a poll yesterday in France. Most french( 53% )don't want to tax transactions alone without the rest of Europe. Most opponents are socialist voters...LOL

Perhaps you should send Sarkozy those poll numers... All he seems to care about is getting re-elected.
 
Quote from tomdavis:

Perhaps you should send Sarkozy those poll numers... All he seems to care about is getting re-elected.

LOL... I guess he is aware now. He got the inverse of what he was looking for by saying France should go alone. He thought socialists would say "That's a brave attitude" but they are more like" I hope Hollande will be more pragmatic". Don't forget Strauss-Kahn should have won this year as a socialist and he was against FTT...
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

LOL... I guess he is aware now. He got the inverse of what he was looking for by saying France should go alone. He thought socialists would say "That's a brave attitude" but they are more like" I hope Hollande will be more pragmatic". Don't forget Strauss-Kahn should have won this year as a socialist and he was against FTT...

Just think, a maid's false accusation in a NYC hotel room could have dramatically altered the FTT for all of Europe if it didn't happen :D
 
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