1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

[lindq]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

So your solution is social engineering? Put free individuals where YOU think they should be?

They shouldn't be trading? They should be contributing as good solid American citizens. Producing more crap that can be sold....where?

At Walmart?

Or Rayond James?

Or your local Chevy dealer?

God, do you know what that sounds like?

You would have loved Nazi Germany. And you would have been especially at home in the Soviet Union.

Sorry you missed THAT great managed economy that did so much for so many.

But, given the fact that there is hardly any aspect of our lives that is not now controlled by the government, you should be one happy camper.

 

[FightTheFuture]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

Sure I understand that there are quite a few business / people that survive off this game, however I feel there is so much wasted talent in the US. A good portion of the smartest people go to work into finance, figuring out how to beat this casino, which again adds little value to society.

Instead I wish our top brains would go into the fields of research, math, and the sciences. The number of people applying patents is on the low.

It's kinda interesting to think of all the time talent and energy that goes into goldman sachs... and what value to they add to society, no much

No, you won't get slammed.

Choices of how to survive are becoming more limited everyday. Why destroy another industry.

Any individual has the right to do as they wish. People choose what they are good at. What if someone is not capable of being a neurosurgeon, you still want them operating on you? Not many can trade, not many can be a surgeon.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

Sure I understand that there are quite a few business / people that survive off this game, however I feel there is so much wasted talent in the US. A good portion of the smartest people go to work into finance, figuring out how to beat this casino, which again adds little value to society.

Instead I wish our top brains would go into the fields of research, math, and the sciences. The number of people applying patents is on the low.

I disagree. I had a career in engineering. I left for trading 14 years ago. After reaching a decent level of success I've been volunteering -- both as a tutor and a mentor the past 9 years working with inner city kids 3 days/week after school. And IMO that is value added, and a byproduct of having flexible hours as a trader.

I did the other stuff -- developed innovative systems and received a patent. The freedom to do with your time as you choose is much more desirable and the gratification of seeing a kid's face light up when he/she gets a new concept is worth more than me having continued on in the corporate world.

 

[Midas]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

Sure I understand that there are quite a few business / people that survive off this game, however I feel there is so much wasted talent in the US. A good portion of the smartest people go to work into finance, figuring out how to beat this casino, which again adds little value to society.

Instead I wish our top brains would go into the fields of research, math, and the sciences. The number of people applying patents is on the low.

It's kinda interesting to think of all the time talent and energy that goes into goldman sachs... and what value to they add to society, no much

I am responsible for putting food on the table, buy diapers, and keep a roof over my families head. I pay high 5 to low 6 figures in taxes that provide the revenue our wise and noble politicians dole out on more "productive" things for society. (tongue in cheek)

I am starting to feel like I am in an episode of the twilight zone with shit like this popping up everywhere.

 

[JOSEF]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

Sure I understand that there are quite a few business / people that survive off this game, however I feel there is so much wasted talent in the US. A good portion of the smartest people go to work into finance, figuring out how to beat this casino, which again adds little value to society.

Instead I wish our top brains would go into the fields of research, math, and the sciences. The number of people applying patents is on the low.

It's kinda interesting to think of all the time talent and energy that goes into goldman sachs... and what value to they add to society, no much

You could say same the same thing about Las Vegas and the gambling industry.

You could say the same thing about pro-sports.

You could say same thing about the tobacco industry.

Yet, we don't charge those industries with such an exorbitant tax that would kill them off. And that's what might happen to short-term trading.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from JOSEF:

You could say same the same thing about Las Vegas and the gambling industry.

You could say the same thing about pro-sports.

You could say same thing about the tobacco industry.

Yet, we don't charge those industries with such an exorbitant tax that would kill them off. And that's what might happen to short-term trading.

Your list brings to light a good point --- what "value" is there is junk food from McDonald's? Maybe we should levy additional taxes on the crap they sell as food. After all the ramifications are that we have lots of overweight, even obese people in society whose health is marginal that eat this junk.

 

[cstfx]

Quote from JOSEF:

You could say same thing about the tobacco industry.

Yet, we don't charge those industries with such an exorbitant tax that would kill them off.

Uh...actually in this case, we do. (or at least trying to)

 

[Glenn]

I'd like to discuss alternatives for those of us that would like to continue to Trade for a living if the Financial Transaction Tax was passed to law.

How could we trade offshore?

What other countries are alternatives to the U.S.?

Can there be exceptions to the law. Such as small business sole propietor????

Will some markets be exempt?

Any and all ideas are welcome. I have not researched this issue in any depth but plan on doing so. I have a large young family I provide for so I am begining to feel desperate.

I did read that Canada has no Transaction Tax, but that article was a few years old.

Glenn

 

[drukes1234]

Quote from Glenn:

I'd like to discuss alternatives for those of us that would like to continue to Trade for a living if the Financial Transaction Tax was passed to law.

How could we trade offshore?

What other countries are alternatives to the U.S.?

Can there be exceptions to the law. Such as small business sole propietor????

Will some markets be exempt?

Any and all ideas are welcome. I have not researched this issue in any depth but plan on doing so. I have a large young family I provide for so I am begining to feel desperate.

I did read that Canada has no Transaction Tax, but that article was a few years old.

Glenn

Glenn,

I will answer your questions as best I can in hopes of a larger discussion.

-I don't think trading US equities offshore would exempt you from the tax.

-Alternatives will be wherever the capital flees to (assuming it's not an international tax) Canada would be the place, there is no tax there.

-There could be exemptions, who knows, but the issue is volume and liquidity will drop off so dramatically that it will make it extremely difficult to trade even with an exemption.

 

[seasideheights]

Quote from ProgrammerGuy:

I know I'm probably going to get slammed here, but if you were too look at this from an unbiased standpoint, you have to realize that short term trading added little to zero value to society.

Sure I understand that there are quite a few business / people that survive off this game, however I feel there is so much wasted talent in the US. A good portion of the smartest people go to work into finance, figuring out how to beat this casino, which again adds little value to society.

Instead I wish our top brains would go into the fields of research, math, and the sciences. The number of people applying patents is on the low.

It's kinda interesting to think of all the time talent and energy that goes into goldman sachs... and what value to they add to society, no much

Quite a few Pension Funds of both blue collar & white collar workers across the USA have started investing portions of their money in short term long/short hedge funds.

So, the customers of some of the short term traders you talk about could include you thru your Pension Fund. I'd imagine you'd want pretty bright people managing the money you're going to use in your retirement, right?