1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times today

Your examples of gas, alcohol and tobacco taxes are not equivalent to a Financial Transactions Tax (FTT). Gasoline taxes are lower in Arizona than they are in California, but it’s hardly worth the cost for me to drive to Arizona from California to buy gasoline because there would be a huge transaction cost every time I filled up my tank. But as a trader, I can permanently avoid the FTT simply by moving to a country that doesn’t impose the tax –- and there will be many.

Look at what happened in Sweden. After they imposed an FTT in 1984, futures volume fell 98%, options trading fell to zero, and most other markets’ trading volume fell by at least 50%. A large portion of the Swedish financial industry either left the country or went out of business. People who worked in the industry lost their jobs and total tax collections (both capital gains and related income taxes) fell so dramatically that the tax losses wiped out all the gains from the FTT. The total FTT taxes collected were less than 5% of what the Finance Ministry had projected, and what was touted as a way to raise billions in taxes to support social services ended up being a net loss to the Swedish Treasury. The Swedish FTT was repealed in 1991, and it should be noted that Sweden opposes the current FTT tax proposals.

If an FTT were enacted today in the US, how long do you think it would take for the Chicago Mercantile Exchange to become the “Hong Kong Commodities Exchange” or the “Singapore Mercantile Exchange”? All the major exchanges, investment banks and active traders will move their trading activities to FTT exempt countries. Thousands of Americans will lose their jobs and the only people left paying the tax will be the ordinary man on the street. Not only will he be paying the FTT tax, but he’ll also be “taxed” again when he pays a higher price for every share due to low volume and increased bid-ask spreads.

As a final note, a 2% annual (once per year) management fee and .25% tax on every transaction are not comparable. As a futures trader, a 0.25% transaction tax would be the equivalent of a 150% annual tax on my profits. I don't know of any country in the world that taxes businesses or individuals at the rate of 150% of profits.

Quote from bullmarket79:

exactly, we had a financial transaction tax from 1914-1966 and America was not a superpower then, we were a poor agrarian society, they got rid of the tax and we then went to the moon, you see how the ftt kept the USA from achieving all that she could, if we bring back a tax we had for decades then we may never do the incredible things America has the potential to do. If they taxed smokes or alcohol or fuel then America would see a huge decline in those items throwing tens of millions out of work, those excise taxes add up to 66 billion pr yr. The ftt would only be plausible if it replaced the death tax which is 18 billion pr yr, this tax hurts the middle class the most since the rich dont pay it, they put there wealth into trust and foundations, what, you think edward kennedy paid death taxes, come on. Look at how ordinary people get clipped purchasing Mutual Funds, .87 for 12b-1 fees, 5% loads n such then of course the management fees running about 1.5%, those hedge funds charge 20 percent of gain and 2% management fees, these industries would be decimated since they already heavily and nickle and dime people due to govt regulations n such. A .25% tax is simply unacceptable. It could send us back to an agrarian society and lose all capabilities of being a space faring nation.
 
Quote from lindq:

I would be careful here about positioning yourself as against "nurses" in any form whatsoever. I would not use the word nurses at all. Come up with something else.

I would also be careful about using the word "speculators", as in speculators are good, helpful, etc.

Very simply, the average listener to your interview can be assumed to love nurses and hate speculators. So with the positioning you lay out above, you lose on both cases.

Also, I suggest that you stick to at most 3-4 solid bullet points. IMHO, they are:

1. The emotional desire to penalize Wall Street can be appreciated in light of the recession. But an FTT will hurt main street equally.

2. Looking at a history of similar taxes in other countries, they have not been successful.

3. A tax will kill the very activity you are attempting to tax. Thus, everyone suffers, but you receive little or no return.

4. Any new tax that has such broad-based consequences can easily misfire, putting the economy further in jeopardy. This is an especially bad time to consider such a tax. We are, in fact, a capitalist society, and the flow of capital is critical to our health. Taxing it will be like putting a clamp on the carodtid artery of a sick patient.

Completely agree...great points. I think much improved presentation without stirring up hornet's nest....
 
exactly, people live where taxes are cheapest for themselves,for example texas has no income tax so people move there,,alcohol taxes in texas are more expensive than say wisconsin because texas has no income tax but yet they need income so they double the alcohol tax in texas compared to wisconsin which does have an income tax, so you would move to texas especially if you dont drink saving even more money, there are states now with there own stock markets, like in the old days when all investments were local and not national or international, so even if they had a ftt you would simply trade in a state stock market as opposed to a national stock market in new york. Many other states are now looking into having there own state stock market. One would think that a hedge fund or pension fund that will pay 10 million or more to insure a portfolio would not be able to afford such investments if they institute a ftt.
 
A unilateral financial transactions tax by the eurozone is becoming increasingly likely, according to Financial Times Deutschland, after Jean-Claude Juncker, who had previous been sceptical, is now fully in favour. Under discussion is a transactions tax of 0.1% to 0.5% of turnover. The pressure on this issue comes from the European Council. The European Commission has been sceptical, and pressure is now growing on Algirdas Semeta, the tax commission to develop a proposal. Juncker said he had preferred to levy such a tax at G20 level, but since this is not possible, the eurozone, should press ahead. The problem with any such proposal is to prevent transaction being routed into offshore financial centres, such as Singapore or Shanghai. And since any proposal on tax requires unanimity, it is very likely that those in favour of the tax would have to invoke the enhanced cooperation procedures under the Lisbon Treaty. But that would be a lengthy process, and unlikely to get the tax ready for 2012.

http://www.globalsocialjustice.eu/i...financial-times-germany&catid=2:news&Itemid=8

WoW only 1000 a round trip!

:D
 
Most of the older investors remember back in the ol days we had to pay between $300-500 for a single purchase price, the market makers had to make a profit so as to be able to grease the markets and provide liquidity.
 
This pro-FTT website - http://tinyurl.com/6je2jrd - has a map claiming to indicate which european countries are for, against, or undecided about an FTT in Europe.

Pro-FTT countries
Germany, France, Spain, Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Finland, Cyprus, and Greece.

Anti-FTT countries
The UK, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands, Italy, Latvia, and The Czech Republic.

Undecided countries
Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ireland, Portugal, and Malta
 
As someone who invests buy and hold isn't this a good thing?

I feel like HFT and small scale high volume and derivative trades have ruined our economy...

anyone care to comment on this?
 
Quote from Jackofclubs111:

As someone who invests buy and hold isn't this a good thing?

I feel like HFT and small scale high volume and derivative trades have ruined our economy...

anyone care to comment on this?

You are making a common mistake of lumping together high volume or high frequency traders with derivatives trades.

In what way have high volume or high frequency traders harmed your investments?

An efficient marketplace is one in which there are a great number of players. An inefficient market is one in which there are fewer players, thus greater costs to you in making your investments.

Why is this difficult to understand?
 
Quote from Jackofclubs111:

As someone who invests buy and hold isn't this a good thing?

I feel like HFT and small scale high volume and derivative trades have ruined our economy...

anyone care to comment on this?

Explain how you think this tax will be good for your investing.

Then explain how anything traded on any of the exchanges ruined the economy.

There are more than 1100 pages in this thread with answers to your questions and more.
 
trading's really hard to understand. I don't claim to understand it. Honestly I think that anyone who really claims to understand anything beyond basic market dynamics is usually FOS. really just asking. perhaps I am confusing derivative trading and HFT.

what about how oil prices recently boomed and crashed because of speculative HFT

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hft-firm-faces-charges-causing-oil-trading-mayhem

seems like the average joe shmoe buy and hold gets taken for a ride in these spots every time. Isn't this the reason they are trying to stop HFT in the first place?
 
Back
Top