1/2 of teachers in US come from bottom 1/3 of their class

Quote from bigarrow:

1)I don't agree with you premise until it's proven but you are approching the stats corretly in questioning and asking what if. From my recollection of college 2) most of my professors were above average intelligence, a few were exceptional teachers and experts in their field. My sample size of one is skewed but you would of think I'd a seen a few dim wits. 3)Also the public teachers I know seem at least average intelligence on average.
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1) You fail to grasp my premise is self evident.

2) You fail to recognize the difference between Professors and education majors (ie teachers)

a) Professors have to be experts in their field of study, and are not always required to have "teacher credentials". I guess the weird exception would be professors of education but hopefully you get my point.

b) Teachers field of expertise is supposedly "education" not necessarily the subject that they are teaching the lil crumb snatchers.

3) Average intelligence on average is 100, and that is sufficiently low to be in the bottom 1/3 of college graduate IQ range.
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Sorry but when I was in college education majors were the dimmest of the lot.

Maybe that's because we didn't have an african studies major.
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So while I do feel most teachers are over paid and under qualifed I have run into some good ones.

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Today I was at my 5 th graders play in San Diego CA.

It was about colonial america... and was the first patriotic anything I have I have seen in in 7 years or so of going to school plays.

It was good... it was funny the kids song turn of last century patriotic songs by famous composers.

It makes me compelled to say that the music teacher who put on the play ( Ms. Tsing.) made me proud of my son's school.

I wonder if she is realated to Tsing Tao.
 
that is the problem right there... well done.


Quote from EricP:

I have little doubt that the stats in the opening post are likely correct. It's been 25 years since I graduated from the University of Maryland, but during my student years I recall the student newspaper publishing the SAT scores of students based upon their chosen field of study (grouped by the college of study, such as College of Engineering, College of Life Sciences, College of Humanities, College of Education, etc). Out of the ~15 colleges at the university, the students with the lowest incoming SAT scores were those in the College of Education (those studying to be teachers). I'd be surprised if this wasn't still the case today.

Edit: Here's a link showing average SAT scores by the intended major of the student.

http://www.joshuakennon.com/sat-sco...ollege-major-show-teachers-are-below-average/

It shows that future teachers score about 70 points below average SAT scores. Certainly not the best and brightest as apparently is the case in Finland. I'm not sure why this fact would surprise anyone.
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Quote from pspr:

Really!!! Are you sure? :confused: :confused:


Summer vacation only lasts 2 months now?
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Teaching is a 10 month position in most states now. In North Carolina school ends in mid-June and starts up in mid-August (including required teacher work days at the beginning & end).
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

1) Not so fast there bubba.

2) Yeah well ranking the class by GPA is fucking stupid anyway.
a) because the most classes of a graduate would be from their major, significantly skewing the easier majors upwards and the harder majors downward.

3) So yes 1/2 the teachers can still come from the bottom 1/3 of the class in academic ability or IQ test.
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I agree that IMO that teachers are not generally the brightest of the lot. However the measurement used in this case was GPA. Teaching is considered one of 'easy' majors and this actually leads to grade inflation for teaching majors at many universities - where it is easy for a fairly mediocre education student to get a GPA above 3.5.

You can make the case possibly that 1/2 of teachers are in the bottom 1/3 of academic ability or an IQ test - but this was not the subject of the McKinsey or any other study - the assertion was that the teachers' GPAs for 1/2 the teachers was in the bottom 1/3. This is an assertion shown to be wrong by figures published by many universities.
 
Quote from bigarrow:

The statistics you posted did not conflict with the point I was making, and they supported what I was saying in regards to teen suicide. Your misunderstanding of my argument and of the statistics is consistent with your unwillingness to see past your talking points, unable to fathom, understand or even put fort the slightest effort to have an open minded conversation when you think the views oppose your beliefs. It is your fundamentalist attitude that makes every conversation with you tiring and pointless.
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LOL

You just described my exact opinion of YOU. You're averse to ANY information that doesn't confirm your, often silly, preconceived notions. You're biased and closed minded to the extreme yet accuse others that disagree with you of the same. You prefer statements that start with "I think" to any facts or studies.
You virtually never if ever admit you're wrong. You think you know better than experts in their field. You think you're much smarter than you really are.

Stick to what you know asshole. Driving nails and roofing.
 
Quote from Lucrum:

LOL

You just described my exact opinion of YOU. You're averse to ANY information that doesn't confirm your, often silly, preconceived notions. You're biased and closed minded to the extreme yet accuse others that disagree with you of the same. You prefer statements that start with "I think" to any facts or studies.
You virtually never if ever admit you're wrong. You think you know better than experts in their field. You think you're much smarter than you really are.

Stick to what you know asshole. Driving nails and roofing.
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Another example of your willful (hopefully) ignorance. I think I'll run down to the local bar for a beer and talk to someone that's civil and nice. Catch you later.
 
Quote from bigarrow:

Another example of...
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...You're aversion to ANY information that doesn't confirm your, often silly, preconceived notions. You're biased and closed minded to the extreme yet accuse others that disagree with you of the same. You prefer statements that start with "I think" to any facts or studies.
You virtually never if ever admit you're wrong. You think you know better than experts in their field. You think you're much smarter than you really are.
 
Quote from pspr:

There was a second study done in 2010 that basically confirmed the results of the first study about teachers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ege-graduates/2011/12/07/gIQAg8HPdO_blog.html
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I must state that I was not aware of the second McKinsey study which is based on SAT/ACT scores.

Still the summary in the article is "Overall, then, the blanket assertion that teachers are coming from the “bottom third” of graduates is, at best, an incomplete picture."

If you go to the McKinsey report (linked in the article); it is entirely focussed on how to attract the top 1/3 of students into teaching. It does not really make the assertion that 1/2 of students are in the bottom 1/3. The separate appendix document ("Closing the talent gap: Attracting and retaining top-third graduates to careers in teaching THE APPENDIX") does not really demonstrate this either despite the article quoting a footnote out of context.

Bottom Line: Are K-12 teachers in the U.S. generally the best & brightest students? No. Are most capabile professionals that can teach students and have them learn? Yes. Should we be blaming teachers for the continuing demise of public education in the U.S.? No - there are plenty of other people a lot more responsible for educational failures in our school systems - I guess that we start placing the blame where it belongs - with the parents, administrators, and politicians.
 
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