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I'm going to ask one more time. For those who cannot get into firms like First NY or Trillium, etc., what are the next best ALTERNATIVES. It's like I keep asking that, and you keep pursuing your own agenda by responding "you'll never get into prop firms like First NY." If anyone wants to...

bigpapi, There's something seriously wrong with you. I don't know what else to say to you. You're a sick guy. By the way, I was looking around some other threads on this site this evening, and I saw one in which one guy, WinItAll, said the following: "I'm fully aware that this site...

Maverick74, I'm not going into my entire resume here. I do have other things in my background that I think can work in my favor, but I want to stay anonymous here. Which I think is perfectly reasonable, as I didn't exactly mean this thread to be a job application! I'm simply asking a...

It's like a broken record around here. An alternative in which I'm not self-employed. Get it? NOT a tough concept people.

I get "defensive" (or, more accurately, ticked off) when people either make statements that I know not to be true, or when people don't answer the question I asked! Again, I'm not really interested in prop firms anymore. I think (and experts like Brett Steenbarger think) that anywhere that...

tickmagnet, Thank you. At least that's something constructive. Yes, I thought "broker" might be a response to this thread, and it is, in fact, something I've thought of myself. I wouldn't rule it out, but it wouldn't really be my first choice either. To me, it's basically a sales job, and...

bigpapi, You don't know the first thing about me! How dare you make assumptions like this. You have no idea what the circumstances were at my old firm. Are you really saying that there are no illegitimate firms out there? If there are, how can you possibly assign blame (as in "it is...

Well, Nik, obviously you have some kind of chip on your shoulder. I don't know why, but I certainly have my theories. Honestly, people, this is like I'm asking the question, "I didn't get into any Ivy League school. What are the next best alternatives?" and getting responses like "There are...

No, Nik, it's not that it's what I don't want to here. It's what I know to be not true. Several people told me that in order to get into one of these firms you need a track record. I then posted ACTUAL TEXTUAL EVIDENCE taken right from the firms' websites themselves stating that they take...

So, in other words, EVERYONE who becomes a trader starts off on his/her own? I'm pretty sure that's not true. As for nothing "like portfolio management," well, maybe you're right, but I'd like to hear from others as well. Maybe someone knows of something that you don't.

Well, again, it depends on whether you're applying as a new or experienced trader! From First NY's own website, "Whether you are a proven and experienced trader or a recent college graduate looking for an exceptional training program,...". From Schonfeld's website, "Schonfeld’s trading...

That's absolutely not true. Or, at least for their new trainees. Yes, they take veteran traders as well, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Okay, well, then I do appreciate your feedback, even though it's not what I'm looking for. Just for the record, not to sound arrogant or anything, I'm 32, went to a 4-year college that most people consider fairly elite, and have an MBA in finance (with a 4.0 GPA in my finance courses). So, I...

Then why does a firm like First NY, for example, train people for 18-24 months? Besides, when you work for a firm, you work in a structured environment that you don't get trading on your own. I'm pretty sure plenty of people start off working for a firm and then go off on their own later on...

Okay, here's my situation. I spent a few months working at one of the "standard" prop firms (i.e., I have to put in my own money) and wasn't really impressed with the experience. After I left, I applied to a few of the top-tier firms (i.e., not only do you not have to put in your own money...

Actually, what I've heard about Keystone is that the deal is that you have to up be at least $100 (so basically above breakeven) at the end of the fourth month, or you're automatically out. So, if that's the case, it's not really a matter of going through your training fee, but how long you...

Yeah, okay, that's technically true, but I don't think that's what most of think of when they hear the words "trading someone else's capital." I mean, if you look at it that way, whenever you buy on margin when trading independently, you're trading your broker's capital. Yet I don't hear...

rwk, Exactly. It seems like, from the prop firm's perspective, a "heads I win, tails you lose" scenario. If you (the trader) make money, they get a cut of it. If you lose money, it's only your contribution you've lost anyway, and the firm still gets the commissions and desk fees, etc...

blackmamba, I assume you mean prop firms with no capital CONTRIBUTIONS, not prop firms with no capital. A prop firm with no capital doesn't exactly sound too enticing! But really, I wouldn't necessarily mind the much lower payout if I'm truly trading someone else's money -- in fact, I...

GRG03002: Interesting idea. Do you happen to know where I can find out more about that kind of thing? Thanks. Gcapman: Just wondering -- was that said in jest?